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    1. #11
      Firestarter75's Avatar
      Firestarter75 is offline Legendary Wizard
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      Re: :: I miss 1ST and 2nd age Pvp/Tourny ::

      I can see not allowing spectators in tournaments, easy to set with such a small field. I would really hate to see it done away with overall though. Not only do I think it's enjoyable to watch matches, but it can be a very useful learning tool. Especially in this day and age where finding any sort of up to date W101 PvP info seems near impossible. The ratbeard guy had a post somewhere listing a bunch of stuff they had done to combat setting for particular opponents. Was that effective at all or just a bunch of hot air?

    2. #12
      Kiley2Sweetz's Avatar
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      Re: :: I miss 1ST and 2nd age Pvp/Tourny ::

      Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter75 View Post
      I can see not allowing spectators in tournaments, easy to set with such a small field. I would really hate to see it done away with overall though. Not only do I think it's enjoyable to watch matches, but it can be a very useful learning tool. Especially in this day and age where finding any sort of up to date W101 PvP info seems near impossible. The ratbeard guy had a post somewhere listing a bunch of stuff they had done to combat setting for particular opponents. Was that effective at all or just a bunch of hot air?
      A bunch of hot air! I use pack lots of mass converts in 3v3/4v4 tournaments. 2 char jades carried the mass converts. Yeah, people set all the time, but mass converts helps alot and people like to watch. I don't see a harm in watching matches.

    3. #13
      Flash33's Avatar
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      Re: :: I miss 1ST and 2nd age Pvp/Tourny ::

      Toxicity issues aside (which exist everywhere, isn't PvP limited and isn't easy to solve (trust me I would know, I used to mod the League of Legends forums), I think another reason Arena has died down is because the game simply has more side activity options now. Back in 1st or 2nd age there really wasn't that much to do outside of PvE or Arena, and while Derby exists and (to me) is fun it has always been neglected in favor of Arena, something I sadly don't see changing any time soon. There's stuff like Monstrology, Deckathalon, Raids, Beastmoon (another form of PvP) and Beastmoon Monster Mayhem (PvE with Beastmoon rules).

      Regarding spectators I don't see removing them from tourneys or ranked will solve things entirely. Yes some people use it to spy on others and to set for future matches but they can do that for practice too. People who stream or record their matches also run the risk of being stream sniped. Maybe if there was an option to allow/disallow spectators in a match that would help things, but nuking them entirely to me isn't the right solution. I also disagree for the reasons @Firestarter75 brought up in his latest post here.

    4. #14
      Dylan Windwalker's Avatar
      Dylan Windwalker is online now Transcendent Wizard

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      Re: :: I miss 1ST and 2nd age Pvp/Tourny ::

      Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter75 View Post
      I can see not allowing spectators in tournaments, easy to set with such a small field. I would really hate to see it done away with overall though. Not only do I think it's enjoyable to watch matches, but it can be a very useful learning tool. Especially in this day and age where finding any sort of up to date W101 PvP info seems near impossible. The ratbeard guy had a post somewhere listing a bunch of stuff they had done to combat setting for particular opponents. Was that effective at all or just a bunch of hot air?
      Like imagine you're teaching a class of youngsters, some of them are there to learn and some of them are aiming to take over your job/paycheck. I wish it was easier to learn how to PvP but honestly I don't think that will ever happen. I'm not sure if explaining the strategies/meta responsibility of the Ki Developers who designed the spells like Roshambo/Gamigo or from the players who actually develop these things in the first place, unlikely to be both. Practical experience getting defeated a bunch of times is probably not as helpful as spectating I guess.

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    5. #15
      Caspeen's Avatar
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      Re: :: I miss 1ST and 2nd age Pvp/Tourny ::

      Quote Originally Posted by Flash33 View Post
      Regarding spectators I don't see removing them from tourneys or ranked will solve things entirely.
      And here's the thing in a nutshell - you are right, it won't solve things entirely, but it will make the arena more fair (better!), so why not? Maybe there's no absolute fix, but if it can get better by degrees, wouldn't it be worth it?

      But the answer is of course not for the very same reason some players can use a game exploit and only get wee slap on the wrist - the hardcore Arena players are whales in this game and way to valuable to KI to upset. And so even though the majority of people spectating are not there for FUN but for an advantage, and even though removing spectating would make most matches more fair, it might upset the Whales so of course it won't be implemented.

      Also, I completely agree that the addition of Events has played a significant role in why Arena participation has diminished but I also think the complexity of the gameplay has a lot to do with it as well. I feel that once upon a time it was mostly about deck construction and a good strategy and while both are still very important, today's Arena is much more nuanced. Knowing all the roshambo intricacies, gambits, and the significant impact of secondary schools have added layers of complexity that can be intimidating to the novice and ultimately have become a barrier to getting new players involved. All that is to say, with these factors working against Arena participation, maybe getting rid of Spectating (which is mostly just "spying") will draw more people in as matches will be contested on a more leveled playing field.

      At least that's what I think.

      Oh, and bring derby back. That's a complete non sequitur but it's been a bit since I've shilled for the BEST PvP....

      Casp

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