Does the community really want a "hard mode"?

[bluedreamer]

Back when test realm was still around I saw lots of YouTube videos where this was discussed. How they were disappointed with what challenge mode actually is. However my take is players really don't want a challenge mode. In my personal opinion it's just players wanting to "talk tough". Now my reasoning is quite simple based on what players actually do. You will see the odd player that does some kind of challenge like Darkmoor solo, or for example Ferric who does a walk-through completely solo. Still few who make challenges for themselves.

There are so many ways to make Wizard far more challenging yet very few people actually do this. I'm sure anyone reading this can and I hope will suggest other ways to make it harder.

The very first thing that comes to mind for me is adjusting the settings so you don't know what school you are facing, or even if it is a boss. Go in blind and carrying cards like prism, because you don't know what you need.

The next thing I would suggest is if you are part of a group, don't use discord or other voice calling software. Good communication especially on cheating bosses is very useful and the ability to talk to your team is a big advantage.

Gear: now this is a big one. Players who genuinely want a challenge could play with this one. Whether using no gear, no pet or just low-level gear. This one has endless opportunities for players really wanting a challenge in wizard. For example you could just simply make sure your wizard has accuracy, so they don't fizzle, no resist, no damage.

Spells: limit what spells you use for example don't use any enchantments. Don't use attack all spells. Limit blades. Don't use feints etc etc

What would you suggest?

[Dylan Windwalker]

I'm not actually sure. If there was a Challenge Mode, would I actually participate in it? Unlike a lot of other players, I do every single side quest in the game and have gotten my fair share of challenges already to some respect. I'd imagine Challenge Mode to be more more difficult but to what extent. If it's something like higher health, stronger spells, and better AI, that's whatever I'd consider doing Challenge Mode. But if the difficulty shot up so Rattlebones has his same cheats as his One Shots, I'm not sure I would even be able to progress so what even is the point.

In general though, I get your point. People on average don't even bother doing Side Quests or any extra content that involves an extra battle. Why would they want Challenge Mode if not that? There's so many ways to make the game challenging already, yet hardly anybody does it. I think part of it is because wizards want to feel full and they just don't want to compensate that feeling for difficulty. They just want Ki at the other end to make the game more difficult for them but balanced to a greater extent.

I'll have to think more about this lol

[Lightdragon]

they actually had challenge modes when the game first came out. although it would be one per world and then it stopped.

[Willowdreamer]

SOME members of the community obviously want the game to be more of a challenge. Others, like myself, are pretty happy with the game as it has been. As new worlds come out, the developers go back and make it a bit easier in earlier worlds, so that new players can get through to the later ones.

My version of "easy mode" is creating a new Wizard to quest through the first arc worlds.

[Phenoixblizzard]

A hard mode option is nice since the bosses that they chose to start off with are difficult already (I'm iffy on Medulla I admit as he's rather easy anyway once you know his cheats). Having the option to choose whether the boss is easy or not is nice even if the rewards aren't so good for the standard mode. It'll make questing easier instead of a stand still for anyone who's questing through and is stuck on a boss that people may not be farming anymore.


I'm one of those people who already has an active challenge going on. The longest running for me is no feints (yep, that one makes a ton of people annoyed) as I started with that one when I first started playing. My spiritual triplets also have handy-caps with both spells and gear. They will continue to wear whatever gear they have until it's no longer able to carry them*, no shadow hit spells unless the main questline mandates it**, and, while not a mandatory part of the challenge, they typically use whatever pet they're currently training while questing unless they need a certain pet for a boss fight. I'm also pretty sure they're still missing some spells that are not shadow related still....



*This applies mostly to the hat, robe, and boots. They can upgrade the rest of their gear through the bazaar as needed or if they get a good one through drops.

**Shadow spells like shrike are allowed as long as the spell itself does not do damage. Spells like barrage and weaver are not allowed as they require a shadow pip and deal damage. This rule was only broken one time and that was during the puzzle boss fight because it just wouldn't die after THREE DAYS of trying

[goldendragon18]

Back when test realm was still around I saw lots of YouTube videos where this was discussed. How they were disappointed with what challenge mode actually is. However my take is players really don't want a challenge mode. In my personal opinion it's just players wanting to "talk tough". Now my reasoning is quite simple based on what players actually do. You will see the odd player that does some kind of challenge like Darkmoor solo, or for example Ferric who does a walk-through completely solo. Still few who make challenges for themselves.

There are so many ways to make Wizard far more challenging yet very few people actually do this. I'm sure anyone reading this can and I hope will suggest other ways to make it harder.

The very first thing that comes to mind for me is adjusting the settings so you don't know what school you are facing, or even if it is a boss. Go in blind and carrying cards like prism, because you don't know what you need.

The next thing I would suggest is if you are part of a group, don't use discord or other voice calling software. Good communication especially on cheating bosses is very useful and the ability to talk to your team is a big advantage.

Gear: now this is a big one. Players who genuinely want a challenge could play with this one. Whether using no gear, no pet or just low-level gear. This one has endless opportunities for players really wanting a challenge in wizard. For example you could just simply make sure your wizard has accuracy, so they don't fizzle, no resist, no damage.

Spells: limit what spells you use for example don't use any enchantments. Don't use attack all spells. Limit blades. Don't use feints etc etc
What would you suggest?

As with several players I have quested with, I am a casual player. I don't play for challenge as I prefer to leave the daily challenges in real life just to be able to relax for a few hours.

What you describe that players can do to have a challenge is very similar to what some of us did several years ago just for fun. We used low level gear, limited our spells to rank 3 without any enchantments. Depending on the area you choose to play, it can be very challenging.

I'm not actually sure. If there was a Challenge Mode, would I actually participate in it? Unlike a lot of other players, I do every single side quest in the game and have gotten my fair share of challenges already to some respect. I'd imagine Challenge Mode to be more more difficult but to what extent. If it's something like higher health, stronger spells, and better AI, that's whatever I'd consider doing Challenge Mode. But if the difficulty shot up so Rattlebones has his same cheats as his One Shots, I'm not sure I would even be able to progress so what even is the point.
In general though, I get your point. People on average don't even bother doing Side Quests or any extra content that involves an extra battle. Why would they want Challenge Mode if not that? There's so many ways to make the game challenging already, yet hardly anybody does it. I think part of it is because wizards want to feel full and they just don't want to compensate that feeling for difficulty. They just want Ki at the other end to make the game more difficult for them but balanced to a greater extent.

I'll have to think more about this lol

Sadly, "hard core" has come up almost every year and to some extent, the game has gotten more difficult for some. I have gotten into the habit of not taking any wizards to max since Dragonspyre. At that time, Dragonspyre was a fair challenge by the time you faced Malistaire.

I started doing a lot of quests solo in Celestia. Not all since some of my friends still played but I did as much as I could. Then again is Zafaria, and on to Avalon and Azteca with only one or two friends still playing. By the time I was half way through KH, I was doing more and more solo and it was getting a lot more difficult. That is when I started dual boxing and brought my Fire wizard up to the same level. To date, I have taken time away from the game off and on that those same 2 wizards are only half way through Empyrea. But by doing so, I have been able to avoid most of the bugs that always come out with a new release and by the time I start running again, the difficulty of the world I am in, is reduced so that I don't have as much trouble doing most quests by dual boxing.


I have also started going through the guides for each world to see what lies ahead. Many of the side quests no longer give XP and unless there is a specific drop that I need, I bypass most of them. Partially, I avoid them for the specific reasons that so many of them have relentless cheats. I currently have 2 quests just sitting in my quest log that I may or may not do. Neither are required as a main quest so If an when, is yet to be seen.


End world bosses have become heavy cheaters or health so high it is beyond comprehension for some. If I get to a point with my 2 main wizards that I can't continue, then I still have 11 more that I can fall back on.


Right now, my goal with those 11 wizards is to get them all to the point they have the "plant all" spell.


Gear drops has also been a deciding factor. I have noticed more and more that any wizard you run, rarely gets a piece of decent gear for that wizard. It is always for a different school and still all but useless and, for newer wizards, you see more Spellements than any kind of gear. Mine put them in the reagents in shared bank since we can't sell, trade or delete them. I have no interest in spellements. My grandson started playing again off and on and gets frustrated with not getting any decent gear and he is not a hard core player either. He plays for fun. I usually have a wizard sitting in the Bazaar in case he needs a bit of help. He has a lvl 46 Death, lvl 20 fire, lvl 7 storm and lvl 6 ice. He has been running the fire the last few times he has played.


To have a balanced game would be a great improvement, but I doubt we will actually see that anytime soon.


With all the additional activities being add to the game, many with too many bugs or the requirements being too high, it does make for more challenges as we have seen with Guilds. Some seem to be advancing well and others struggle. It becomes a challenge to collect Azoth or be able to transmute to the ones you need because of the ability to acquire the recipes. I have seen several state they are collecting hundreds if no thousands trying to get the recipes. That alone is a challenge when you are trying to quest and collect at the same time. I do these when I have the time to actually get in the game for that reason. It becomes a challenge for many of us when we are faced with the health of ourselves or that of a family member. I'm not the only one that is dealing with this and I have been fortunate enough that the Guild I belong to is so understanding.


It is a challenge for newer players to get some of the seeds for gardening such as CP, DHE, EMP for the mega snacks to level up pets. Reagents are a challenge too, but if you keep at it long enough, you will eventually get what you need. The never ending farming for some of these items is one of the hardest and for some, it is reason to not play.


So, as you can see, almost everything is a challenge for many who play. Some challenge is good, but not all.


Over the past 2-3 years, we have all had more challenges than we ever could have imagined in "Real Life". For the time being, it still isn't all that easy. So why anyone would want to face challenges in a game, especially W101, is beyond me. I'm certainly not looking for some of the challenges that leaves you feeling more stressed than what we deal with on a daily basis.

[Ravino.]

Yes, a lot of players want a set of greater challenges, it's been a commonly requested feature of Wiz for a very long time.

However I think you're misunderstanding what they're actually asking for, it's not simply more challenging battles - as you've said, you can create your own challenge if you want to. No, most of the people asking this for those who are on top of the game, have perfect gear, perfects pet, what they truly want is content against which they can match their perfect builds and still feel challenged.

And of course, earn even more awesome stuff that'll make them feel even more unique.

As for the people outside this small elite, they will be happy to roll with it and enjoy the "hard mode" as long as it's well designed and its rewards are also accessible to them.

But this is where the controversies start as we know the devs intend to deliver the greatest challenges with the "advanced mode" (the system used in raids - PvE with PvP rules and spells) and while a few elite players are thrilled with the concept, I'd comfortably wager most of the community aren't so keen about it.

Meanwhile the systems introduced in the past four years show a trend for content to be extremely grindy and largely out of reach for the average player - think raids, spellements, events crafting - and so far we have no reason to think the upcoming "hard mode" will be an exception to KI's over-tuned rewards model.

Like much KI has released, "hard mode" is a good concept in itself yet its success and appeal among players will hinge on its execution - especially its ability to satisfy players who don't treat Wiz as a job.

~R

[Torpzun26]

Back when test realm was still around I saw lots of YouTube videos where this was discussed. How they were disappointed with what challenge mode actually is. However my take is players really don't want a challenge mode. In my personal opinion it's just players wanting to "talk tough". Now my reasoning is quite simple based on what players actually do. You will see the odd player that does some kind of challenge like Darkmoor solo, or for example Ferric who does a walk-through completely solo. Still few who make challenges for themselves.

There are so many ways to make Wizard far more challenging yet very few people actually do this. I'm sure anyone reading this can and I hope will suggest other ways to make it harder.

The very first thing that comes to mind for me is adjusting the settings so you don't know what school you are facing, or even if it is a boss. Go in blind and carrying cards like prism, because you don't know what you need.

The next thing I would suggest is if you are part of a group, don't use discord or other voice calling software. Good communication especially on cheating bosses is very useful and the ability to talk to your team is a big advantage.

Gear: now this is a big one. Players who genuinely want a challenge could play with this one. Whether using no gear, no pet or just low-level gear. This one has endless opportunities for players really wanting a challenge in wizard. For example you could just simply make sure your wizard has accuracy, so they don't fizzle, no resist, no damage.

Spells: limit what spells you use for example don't use any enchantments. Don't use attack all spells. Limit blades. Don't use feints etc etc

What would you suggest?

If people want harder content but aren't doing that, then it just might be because the solution you're offering isn't going to solve the problem that they have. Or else they would've already done it. Playing poorly on purpose is not my idea of a challenge.

Sometimes I'll go and solo a boss that was definitely designed for a team. I soloed Iron Face and the Malistaire Rematch. I even did a solo against Baba Yaga where I went afk for 10 minutes in the middle of the match. And despite that I'm still one of the worst people in this entire forum. So yes, I've been there. And I can still say that intentionally not playing to your best potential for the sake of a "challenge" doesn't accomplish what you think it would.

What makes harder content more fun is being able to utilize all of your resources, actions, and strategies so that you can overcome the odds. By limiting yourself, you would be doing... the exact opposite. With less available you're still challenged, but it's in a way that makes you feel inefficient rather than good at the game. This is why most games that feature difficulty make the game harder on harder difficulties. They don't take power away from the player for turning the difficulty up.