Aphrodite is now a stone key boss

[Ravino.]

As we continue to modify the skeleton key system in future updates we will likely revisit the acquisition of other keys as well as the drop tables and rates for the bosses accessed via said keys.
That being said, you are not forced to farm the new gold key bosses to acquire stone keys, it is simply an additional option. You can continue to acquire stone keys from all the sources you currently do as well.

I just hope the update to acquisition methods can come before too long.

I'm sure you already know this, Eric, but the wooden and stone keys have always been rarer for maxes - right now I'd say they're actually harder to get than gold keys.

Would be great if they dropped in the main encounters of Novus, like gold keys would have in the old system - after all, their value is meant to stay the same as the old gold keys, if I understand correctly.

~R

[bluedreamer]

I just hope the update to acquisition methods can come before too long.

I'm sure you already know this, Eric, but the wooden and stone keys have always been rarer for maxes - right now I'd say they're actually harder to get than gold keys.

Would be great if they dropped in the main encounters of Novus, like gold keys would have in the old system - after all, their value is meant to stay the same as the old gold keys, if I understand correctly.

~R

I think that is the point of the change, it's to make it harder to be able to farm these bosses. It's got nothing to do witht the perceived value of the drops from the new gold key bosses. They want us grinding for spellements. They don't want us going for the premium items like mounts. Sure the new key bosses have mounts as a possible drop but they are very rare. Sure you can say it drops crown gear frequently but when you think about it, most of the gear is junk unless you want it for a stitch. Mostly it's items from packs that players aren't going to spend money on! Most of the gear is level 120 or 130, it has no real value to a level 150, has no value to KI when they can't monetize it. Whereas the majority of the old gold key bosses drop mounts. Mounts hold value at 150, 160+_and they drop at a higher rate in the old gold key bosses. It's all about limiting the number of runs players can do.

After all Gold Keys have never been easier to obtain. For a few minutes a day doing dailies, on my two accounts I can get 24 keys every 30 days. That is crazy! Under the old system I probably wouldn't see that many in a year. Now I can potentially get 288 gold keys in a year. This change is about gatekeeping the premium items plain and simple. If it wasn't there would be no need to change it.

[Clover]

Plucked straight from the Update Notes of August this year:

In addition to these exciting new fights, we have changed the system of Skeleton Keys in a few ways. Firstly, we’re phasing out Wooden and Stone Keys, which means all 10 of these new fights will be unlocked with Gold Skeleton Keys. These gold keys are now found on Event progress bars, as well as on existing Skeleton Key Bosses. Any boss not listed above will still accept the old key types on their door.

I am under the impression that KI seems to think that the phrase "Phasing Out" means something very different to what the average person would think. To phase something out, per Merriam-Webster, means "to discontinue the practice, production, or use of by phases." It does not mean to change existing systems.

If Aphrodite does not live up to what is to be expected of a Gold Key boss, perhaps the issue lies with the droptable and not with the key type. I personally am fortunate enough to have Sacred Charge in my repertoire, meanwhile many other wizards (some in this very thread) have spent dozens and dozens of keys with no luck. With Spellements being dropped from the latest Key bosses, I fail to see why Aphrodite, Takanobu, and Lambent Fire could not have also received this treatment. The spell drop rate is downright abysmal from these bosses. I am still trying to get Catch of the Day for my Storm, and Burning Rampage has not dropped for ANY of the wizards I have beaten Lambent Fire with and I run with a full team of 4. Spellements would make these highly elusive spells much more accessible, while still requiring the investment of a Gold Skeleton Key and adhering to the cheats from the respective bosses.

I have fewer Stone Keys than any other type. I could build a world wonder with the amount of Gold Keys I have between my wizards, while Stone Keys constantly have me on edge with how few I own. I debated using some of them when I read that they were being phased out and am very, very glad I never got around to it since it appears that they are not being phased out in the slightest.

[SeptenaryRavens]

I'm not sure if I completely agree with KI changing existing systems that HAVE been the norm for 8+ years, go on and say that these instances "did not meet the value that we expect to come from gold skeleton keys", and then change the locks from gold to stone. Why do systems that aren't broken require "fixing?" It would have been a simple update to just do a "platinum skeleton key" update for the spellemental key bosses while keeping everything else intact. They could've even made new bosses instead of revamping Ixcax and Takanobu. I seriously thought the gold keys I've been hoarding could've been useful in the future, but I guess I was wrong. Into my storage houses they go.

[Ravino.]

It would have been a simple update to just do a "platinum skeleton key" update for the spellemental key bosses while keeping everything else intact.

This is what puzzles me as well, creating a new key type would have avoided all this confusion and controversy while allowing KI to deliver the high-value key boss encounters they wanted. But by trying to rework the system, they created complications and discontent and gave themselves waaaay more work to do.

I appreciate them trying to make key bosses feel worth it, especially after the likes of Fellspawn, but the approach they've taken is... disruptive.

Maybe the designers were too focused on "making key bosses great again", feeling the system had to be fixed rather than given a meaningful expansion - tunnel vision, if you will.

But now it's already in progress, all that's is to wait and see the stone/wooden key acquisition framework to know if this whole overhaul will give us anything we wouldn't otherwise get with a simpler update... quite personally I'm skeptical we'll see any real change as aside from storyline questing, KI doesn't seem to be leaning on the side of making things easier or more accessible.


~R

[bluedreamer]

I'm not sure if I completely agree with KI changing existing systems that HAVE been the norm for 8+ years, go on and say that these instances "did not meet the value that we expect to come from gold skeleton keys", and then change the locks from gold to stone. Why do systems that aren't broken require "fixing?" It would have been a simple update to just do a "platinum skeleton key" update for the spellemental key bosses while keeping everything else intact. They could've even made new bosses instead of revamping Ixcax and Takanobu. I seriously thought the gold keys I've been hoarding could've been useful in the future, but I guess I was wrong. Into my storage houses they go.

This is what puzzles me as well, creating a new key type would have avoided all this confusion and controversy while allowing KI to deliver the high-value key boss encounters they wanted. But by trying to rework the system, they created complications and discontent and gave themselves waaaay more work to do.

I appreciate them trying to make key bosses feel worth it, especially after the likes of Fellspawn, but the approach they've taken is... disruptive.

Maybe the designers were too focused on "making key bosses great again", feeling the system had to be fixed rather than given a meaningful expansion - tunnel vision, if you will.

But now it's already in progress, all that's is to wait and see the stone/wooden key acquisition framework to know if this whole overhaul will give us anything we wouldn't otherwise get with a simpler update... quite personally I'm skeptical we'll see any real change as aside from storyline questing, KI doesn't seem to be leaning on the side of making things easier or more accessible.


~R

Gentlemen ponder this if you will. Have Gold Keys been devalued? We can all do daily's in a few mins per day, correct? 6 wiz times 1 key every 15 days on an average account means what?

12 Gold keys per 30 days.

times by 4 friends(including us)...

48 keys, meaning 48 gold key battles for 4 friends per month.

Think.

48 gold key bosses per month.

Now IF they say old ones are devalued compared to new ones. Why change them?

*THINK*

We have LOTS of keys now.

So why is that a bad thing for us? More keys, more chance at loot?

*THINK*

So why would KI change that? if we have no down side?

Because we have less access to stone keys!

*THINK*

Are they going to give us say stone keys on day 13 of Daily Assignments?

Where do stone keys come from?

We still have 12 gold keys per account per month from daily's.

Where do we get stone keys from?

do we get 48 per month from a group of 4 wiz? We do Gold and less places to farm.

Isn't that odd?

*THINK*

We have 48 gold keys per month for a full team yet KI want to remove many premium key dungeons.

Do we have access to 48 stone keys to do those "lesser" key bosses? No.

*THINK*

Will KI give us access to 12 easy stone keys per month per player?

*THINK*

Players have many stone keys in general?

Where do stone keys come from?

*THINK*

So why would it benefit us?

*THINK*

Where is the players upside from this change?

Why would KI do this?

Who gains?

Tell me which keys are hardest to get now? Gold? Stone?

*THINK*

[Ravino.]

Gentlemen ponder this if you will. Have Gold Keys been devalued? We can all do daily's in a few mins per day, correct? 6 wiz times 1 key every 15 days on an average account means what?
theory-crafting et cetera

I think you missed a point in Eric's post here: the system for acquiring Stone/Wooden keys isn't finished, they'll be made more common in the future. Stone boss = lesser value = easier access.

Just think, why would KI want to give us easy access to Gold key bosses? After they've just made them drop crown items and lore spellements every run? How do they profit off rarer Stone keys? Betting on the sale of Key bundles over hoard packs would be laughably bad strategy - people are more likely to buy a pack for crowns items than a bundle of keys you could get for free, even if they become somewhat rare.

This isn't some stratagem to make old bosses less accessible, it's just another instance of KI leaving us with an unfinished system and all the inconveniences that entails.

~R

[bluedreamer]

I think you missed a point in Eric's post here: the system for acquiring Stone/Wooden keys isn't finished, they'll be made more common in the future. Stone boss = lesser value = easier access.
Just think, why would KI want to give us easy access to Gold key bosses? After they've just made them drop crown items and lore spellements every run?
How do they profit off rarer Stone keys? Betting on the sale of Key bundles over hoard packs would be laughably bad strategy - people are more likely to buy a pack for crowns items than a bundle of keys you could get for free, even if they become somewhat rare.

This isn't some stratagem to make old bosses less accessible, it's just another instance of KI leaving us with an unfinished system and all the inconveniences that entails.

~R

Open up your mind. They want us farming spellements, right? Seriously look what crowns items drop. Have you tried the new Gold key bosses, should be question number ONE? Seriously do you think this mostly level 120-130 gear is "good"?

No 2, have you any use besides of stitches for "mostly" level 120-130 gear?

So what value does this crowns gear have to a 150-160?

Just think, why would KI want to give us easy access to Gold key bosses? After they've just made them drop crown items and lore spellements every run?

They messed up!

They messed up!

The Devs don't know the game!

[Novical]

This change is absurd. Stone keys are the hardest keys to come by and now bosses like Omen and Aphrodites are locked behind them? Keep in mind, gold keys drop rates have been nerfed too a couple updates back. It's incredible how W101 team can come out with updates that strangle the game and make it even more unwelcoming for new players to catch up.

[Caspeen]

How about if stone key bosses required at least a stone key, meaning both gold and stone could be used, instead of just a stone key? And wooden key bosses could be opened with any key.

For the Win...

Genius.

I had no idea Wooden and Stone keys were so coveted - I've never had as may as I have right now in my life! - but @Happy Fun Ball's idea is the best of all worlds. If someone wants to use a highly coveted GOLD key for something so lowly as a Stone or Wooden Key - why not? Maintains the value of the Gold keys and gives players what they really want - options.

Casp