Aphrodite is now a stone key boss

[bluedreamer]

Thanks for providing the video. Honestly these bosses that "offer" so many neat things - there have been loads of times I've joined a key boss battle and only gotten treasure cards, snacks and reagents. In the past several years I have farmed Aphrodite time and again with my friends, yet I have never seen any of us learn the Sacred Charge spell. We get the same rings and athames over and over and over again.

Are you saying now that the developers have decided we need to use Gold Keys to farm bosses like Lady Stonegaze that will drop Stone Keys so that we can go back to what used to be a Gold Key sigil? I feel this is some sort of devilishly torturous circular logic that I don't particularly enjoy.

I hear you on Aphrodite! Me and my friend have been farming that over and over, I want the fire rings and she wants the spell. Clearly the drop rates are ridiculously low, same with the key boss in Avalon that drops Burning Rampage. I guess we have a week or so until test goes live to get what we want.

I hope you're wrong about the devilishly torturous circular logic but I'd bet that is their plan.

[LookitLight]

I for one need to learn more details about this situation before I can get a proper opinion. Specifically in regards to Stone Skeleton Keys.

Will the method of acquiring Stone Keys change? Will it become easier? Harder? What about Wooden Keys, what will happen to those? Will there be any changes to the bosses as well as the keys needed to access them? Why was this change necessary?

@Sparck, @Eric Stormbringer, before you follow through on this proposed change, some important clarification is needed. What exactly is going on here?

[Eric Stormbringer]

Thanks for providing the video. Honestly these bosses that "offer" so many neat things - there have been loads of times I've joined a key boss battle and only gotten treasure cards, snacks and reagents. In the past several years I have farmed Aphrodite time and again with my friends, yet I have never seen any of us learn the Sacred Charge spell. We get the same rings and athames over and over and over again.

Are you saying now that the developers have decided we need to use Gold Keys to farm bosses like Lady Stonegaze that will drop Stone Keys so that we can go back to what used to be a Gold Key sigil? I feel this is some sort of devilishly torturous circular logic that I don't particularly enjoy.

The issue with Aphrodite is precisely why we changed the keys. Aphrodite did not meet the value that we expect to come from gold skeleton keys so we changed the key. With the new gold key bosses- players who have gold keys will know precisely what they offer and how much value they convey.

As we continue to modify the skeleton key system in future updates we will likely revisit the acquisition of other keys as well as the drop tables and rates for the bosses accessed via said keys.

That being said, you are not forced to farm the new gold key bosses to acquire stone keys, it is simply an additional option. You can continue to acquire stone keys from all the sources you currently do as well.

[bluedreamer]

The issue with Aphrodite is precisely why we changed the keys. Aphrodite did not meet the value that we expect to come from gold skeleton keys so we changed the key. With the new gold key bosses- players who have gold keys will know precisely what they offer and how much value they convey.

As we continue to modify the skeleton key system in future updates we will likely revisit the acquisition of other keys as well as the drop tables and rates for the bosses accessed via said keys.

That being said, you are not forced to farm the new gold key bosses to acquire stone keys, it is simply an additional option. You can continue to acquire stone keys from all the sources you currently do as well.

Don't you think players would rather have you changed the drop rates to make them better? Whether Aphrodite for example is a wooden, stone or gold key boss is irrelevant when the desired items do not drop!

On the other side omen has always offered tremendous value. In my honest opinion it offers better value than any of the new key bosses. It certainly destroys your argument when it is filled with eight mounts, Mastery amulets, countless crowns pets, crown gear, rare reagents and very good decks for the level. Also excellent drop rates.

Whereas I would say the new gold key bosses crowns gear are not even level to 150. Simply change the drop rates not the type of key. To be honest why not remove the need for a key at all?

Or how about adding spellments so that Aphrodite can give the spell, why not add Burning Rampage as well as the storm spell that dropped in Mooshu?

[Dylan Windwalker]

I personally think that Aphrodite should still be a Gold Key and Sacred Charge should be turned into Spellements (maybe something that increases damage or turns the spell into a self heal instead of damaging). Given a set of 7 spellements per fight of Sacred Charge should be sufficient enough to make those who want the spell learn the spell and those who want to make out the spellements of this spell, not grind for too long. I've farmed that plant for years and I've yet to get that spell, it would be nice to learn it at some point. A spellement change would fix this problem.

Right now I have something like 4-5 Stone Keys (that I've said I was going to use, but now I'm glad I didn't). I really hope I get enough to learn that spell

On that note, I agree with @bluedreamer, I think Catch of the Day and Burning Rampage should have spellement tracks as well. If the majority of previously dropped spells have spellement tracks now, might as well make them all and consistent. I know the old Catch of the Day wooden key boss is now a Gold Key boss that drops the Mooshu themed Lore spells (Samoorai, Goat Monk, and Ninja Pigs). I really insist that there is a separate Gold Key boss for Catch of the Day spellements. I also hope the same is given for the Crystal Caves Key boss tha drops Avalon themed Lore Spells (Catalan, Deer Knight, and Handsome Fomori), there should be a separate key boss that drops Burning Ramage spellements exclusively.

[bluedreamer]

I personally think that Aphrodite should still be a Gold Key and Sacred Charge should be turned into Spellements (maybe something that increases damage or turns the spell into a self heal instead of damaging). Given a set of 7 spellements per fight of Sacred Charge should be sufficient enough to make those who want the spell learn the spell and those who want to make out the spellements of this spell, not grind for too long. I've farmed that plant for years and I've yet to get that spell, it would be nice to learn it at some point. A spellement change would fix this problem.

Right now I have something like 4-5 Stone Keys (that I've said I was going to use, but now I'm glad I didn't). I really hope I get enough to learn that spell

On that note, I agree with @bluedreamer, I think Catch of the Day and Burning Rampage should have spellement tracks as well. If the majority of previously dropped spells have spellement tracks now, might as well make them all and consistent. I know the old Catch of the Day wooden key boss is now a Gold Key boss that drops the Mooshu themed Lore spells (Samoorai, Goat Monk, and Ninja Pigs). I really insist that there is a separate Gold Key boss for Catch of the Day spellements. I also hope the same is given for the Crystal Caves Key boss tha drops Avalon themed Lore Spells (Catalan, Deer Knight, and Handsome Fomori), there should be a separate key boss that drops Burning Ramage spellements exclusively.

Thanks I just couldn't recall Catch Of The Day spells name. Why they aren't available as spellements already is baffling. Personally I don't care of spellements paths, only getting the spells. Who wants to farm for days, weeks, months for a few extra damage etc knowing that can be changed like the direction of the wind? Key bosses is a perfect example of this, paraphrasing Rat beard "we are phasing out Stone and wooden keys out" 6 months later a changed message.

You can't trust a word the devs say any more. I'd say it's a perfect example of they have no idea what they are doing, chopping and changing. They just keep lying, remember the lie of Double Gardening was never meant to be seeds, even though we asked at the time? Or how current gardening benefit will be more often but in the last few years is LESS than when seeds doubled.

Current day devs are like politicians, when their lips move they (do what?). Sorry if you're a dev, following the bosses orders being tarred by the same brush.

[WarWeaver]

Odd, I was expecting a tiered fight with spellement drops, maybe a crown item drop or some other stuff like with the others. Is this temporary or are they just not willing to make tiered fights for them?

[icourt]

I personally think that Aphrodite should still be a Gold Key and Sacred Charge should be turned into Spellements (maybe something that increases damage or turns the spell into a self heal instead of damaging). Given a set of 7 spellements per fight of Sacred Charge should be sufficient enough to make those who want the spell learn the spell and those who want to make out the spellements of this spell, not grind for too long. I've farmed that plant for years and I've yet to get that spell, it would be nice to learn it at some point. A spellement change would fix this problem.

Right now I have something like 4-5 Stone Keys (that I've said I was going to use, but now I'm glad I didn't). I really hope I get enough to learn that spell

On that note, I agree with @bluedreamer, I think Catch of the Day and Burning Rampage should have spellement tracks as well. If the majority of previously dropped spells have spellement tracks now, might as well make them all and consistent. I know the old Catch of the Day wooden key boss is now a Gold Key boss that drops the Mooshu themed Lore spells (Samoorai, Goat Monk, and Ninja Pigs). I really insist that there is a separate Gold Key boss for Catch of the Day spellements. I also hope the same is given for the Crystal Caves Key boss tha drops Avalon themed Lore Spells (Catalan, Deer Knight, and Handsome Fomori), there should be a separate key boss that drops Burning Ramage spellements exclusively.

Thanks I just couldn't recall Catch Of The Day spells name. Why they aren't available as spellements already is baffling. Personally I don't care of spellements paths, only getting the spells. Who wants to farm for days, weeks, months for a few extra damage etc knowing that can be changed like the direction of the wind? Key bosses is a perfect example of this, paraphrasing Rat beard "we are phasing out Stone and wooden keys out" 6 months later a changed message.

You can't trust a word the devs say any more. I'd say it's a perfect example of they have no idea what they are doing, chopping and changing. They just keep lying, remember the lie of Double Gardening was never meant to be seeds, even though we asked at the time? Or how current gardening benefit will be more often but in the last few years is LESS than when seeds doubled.

Current day devs are like politicians, when their lips move they (do what?). Sorry if you're a dev, following the bosses orders being tarred by the same brush.

Catch of the Day, Burning Rampage, and Sacred Charge are all on Cam's "to do list" for turning them into spellements. It's more so a matter of "when" it will happen rather than "if" it will happen. Cam also fantasized with the idea of moving Sacred Charge to another location, which is more obvious now that Aphrodite is a stone boss.

Once those spells become spellements, those will drop from a Gold key only boss (whether that be their current boss or a new one altogether). Gold Key-only bosses that have "gold key worthy" rewards will be tiered. All other key fights are not tiered.

As for Wood/Stone key sources, almost all sources are unchanged from what they were in the Spring update. When they said "phasing out," the devs actually meant that they weren't planning to create *new* wood/stone bosses. The old ones will stick for a while (until they're given "gold key worthy drops" and converted?). Only Gold Skeleton Key acquisition sources were changed (see the Wiki for details).

Hope I was able to provide some insight.
Court
Wiki-Master

[bluedreamer]

Catch of the Day, Burning Rampage, and Sacred Charge are all on Cam's "to do list" for turning them into spellements. It's more so a matter of "when" it will happen rather than "if" it will happen. Cam also fantasized with the idea of moving Sacred Charge to another location, which is more obvious now that Aphrodite is a stone boss.

Once those spells become spellements, those will drop from a Gold key only boss (whether that be their current boss or a new one altogether). Gold Key-only bosses that have "gold key worthy" rewards will be tiered. All other key fights are not tiered.

As for Wood/Stone key sources, almost all sources are unchanged from what they were in the Spring update. When they said "phasing out," the devs actually meant that they weren't planning to create *new* wood/stone bosses. The old ones will stick for a while (until they're given "gold key worthy drops" and converted?). Only Gold Skeleton Key acquisition sources were changed (see the Wiki for details).

Hope I was able to provide some insight.
Court

I appreciate you trying to clear up things. However I do need to state if you're going to change things, state things clearly from the beginning. Changes have been told to us and lied to us. As I explained with just a few examples above. These are not tiny changes. Personally I wasted huge amounts of stone keys, just to use them up. When now those huge numbers of keys and I mean large numbers of keys, would have been use for gold key battles(then , soon to be Stone) that I planned to do in the future. Are now useless.

Communication is very important between us the player and you the developers and you keep lying to us. I'm not having a go at you Mr Court. You can't keep changing the rules and think it's acceptable. It's not acceptable. If you say wooden and stone keys are going to be phased out. Players may not be happy with that and we weren't. We expected all key bosses to become gold key bosses. To then change bosses, That we may have wanted to have farmed in the future, to another key that we just wasted because we had to, because you told us were being phased out, is more than big slap in the face.

You told us every key bosses were was going to become Gold Key bosses. Look most people wont get on their high horse, but when you keep chopping and changing its just not blessed well right. Speaking personally God knows how many years worth of keys I wasted because you told me they were being phased out. Yes I'm angry with you the company, to then change your mind. I used keys on waste of bloody time because you didn't tell us you were going to do something else. Frankly KI should refund us God knows how many keys, stone and wooden, There's no ifs and buts maybes, you deceived us.

Sorry for such a massive rant but KI, well the lead dev RatBeard needs to make plans, think them through and again and again before speaking or changing anything. All my keys lost were wasted on false info, on Gold key bosses I wanted to farm in the future. I am upset with this "gentleman" because as informed players we make choices, based on future changes from developers.

[Happy Fun Ball]

How about if stone key bosses required at least a stone key, meaning both gold and stone could be used, instead of just a stone key? And wooden key bosses could be opened with any key.