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    1. #11
      Pegasus Unbound's Avatar
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      Thumbs up Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      Quote Originally Posted by The Dragoness View Post
      So if Wizard101 is officially going to be celebrating pride, can we do something about this...? Can we move past 2010's "the word is an insult" phase of censorship in the chat?
      I could not agree more, what do you think can be done @Sparck?

      I did mention the same issue but on the Central auto-edit system with @Jester. I also think some of our Mods' need to keep the new acceptance of Pride terms and topics in mind rather than just delete the posts.
      Last edited by AluraMist; 6-2-22 at 6:02:55 PM. Reason: Removed a direct name mentioned.


    2. #12
      AlbusDoumbledore's Avatar
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      Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      Given that this game is targeted toward kids I think it is wise for KI to censor the word. While many of us have grown up since the game first came out there is a whole era of kids waiting to play. At that age making jokes and teases about body parts and ***uality is very common. We don't want kids going around calling everyone "***" not because it is a taboo but because at that age the child does not fully understand the concept of ***uality. Let kids be kids and not put pressure on them to explore certain areas of life that they are not ready for.
      Quote Originally Posted by The Dragoness View Post
      So if Wizard101 is officially going to be celebrating pride, can we do something about this...? Can we move past 2010's "the word is an insult" phase of censorship in the chat?
      If you have to ask, you’ll never know. If you know, you need only ask.

    3. #13
      Pegasus Unbound's Avatar
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      Cool Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      Quote Originally Posted by AlbusDoumbledore View Post
      Given that this game is targeted toward kids I think it is wise for KI to censor the word. While many of us have grown up since the game first came out there is a whole era of kids waiting to play. At that age making jokes and teases about body parts and ***uality is very common. We don't want kids going around calling everyone "***" not because it is a taboo but because at that age the child does not fully understand the concept of ***uality. Let kids be kids and not put pressure on them to explore certain areas of life that they are not ready for.
      There is truth to what you say, but at the same time there are safer terms that can be allowed. If nothing else, it would not hurt to review the list after all these years. English is an ever evolving language and an update every couple years would be warranted. As I said, even the word/name van is blocked. How many people drive a van? What is so "naughty" that it needs to be blocked? This is just one of a long list of examples.

      As far as Central, again it depends on the current use of the words. I also think that in cases where the post needs to be moderated, they should just edit it when possible and pm the writer to let them know. If it has to be deleted, again at least let the author know why so they can rewrite it "properly".

      In either case, communication is key in a review of the "lists".


    4. #14
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Arrow Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      Quote Originally Posted by AlbusDoumbledore View Post
      Given that this game is targeted toward kids I think it is wise for KI to censor the word. While many of us have grown up since the game first came out there is a whole era of kids waiting to play. At that age making jokes and teases about body parts and ***uality is very common. We don't want kids going around calling everyone "***" not because it is a taboo but because at that age the child does not fully understand the concept of ***uality. Let kids be kids and not put pressure on them to explore certain areas of life that they are not ready for.
      OK, a few things. It is legitimately problematic that you view kids being exposed to LBGTQI+ terminology as "put[ting] pressure on them"- by this logic, the countless straight characters in our media and Wizard101 put siminlar pressure on children, but I don't see you complaining about that too!
      Second, we don't want kids going around using words as an insult because it's homophobic, not because they can't understand ***uality.


      Third, kids can understand ***uality just fine. When you say to a kid "oh, I have two dads" they're just gonna say "Cool!" and then run off. It really is that simple, and yet I see adults struggle more with accepting one's identity than kids. We can (And should!) explain what it means to be LBGTQI+ to children- they won't need to understand the intricacies of every identity, but it's in fact more harmful for everyone to leave kids in the dark on this stuff.






      Last edited by Willowdreamer; 6-2-22 at 7:08:55 AM. Reason: asterisks

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    5. #15
      SeptenaryRavens's Avatar
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      Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      Quote Originally Posted by AlbusDoumbledore View Post
      Given that this game is targeted toward kids I think it is wise for KI to censor the word. While many of us have grown up since the game first came out there is a whole era of kids waiting to play. At that age making jokes and teases about body parts and ***uality is very common. We don't want kids going around calling everyone "***" not because it is a taboo but because at that age the child does not fully understand the concept of ***uality. Let kids be kids and not put pressure on them to explore certain areas of life that they are not ready for.
      I think we need to stop with the whole "this game is targeted towards kids" argument because parents (and/or legal guardians) should not let the internet teach their kids for them 100% of the time. You're (as in the parents, not you directly) doing your child a disservice by not monitoring what they are doing online. It's irresponsible for these parents to let their kids have free reign on the internet and allow them to say whatever their heart desires, whether or not it's offensive. But what am I to say; considering there are kids below the age of 13 who have open chat from having their parent's card on file. I don't think it's necessarily 100% the child's fault if they say something offensive online - they're still learning and developing what is right and what is wrong.

      But, it's 2022. I think the wiz community and the world in general are much more supportive to us and are allies. The least we can do is ignore and report those who cross boundaries to which we do not approve of. If someone were to call me a term in a derogatory way, then all I would do is report and ignore. Since there's no knowing whether that person is 10 or 30, it's not my job to teach or change these people's minds. I can tell them "hey that's going too far" and tell them why, but at the end of the day I won't be able to single-handedly change their mind, that's their prerogative. If you were a responsible parent and you saw your child was saying some offensive things online, I would hope you would teach them how that behaviour affects others negatively rather than let strangers do that for you.

      With that said, I'd be down if KI were to remove the ban on these words. Maybe a common ground would be to unblank the word depending on if there are certain keywords before or after said word. For example "I'm xyz" would unban the word. Same with "xyz pride". Just my thoughts.
      Last edited by SeptenaryRavens; 6-2-22 at 12:28:54 AM. Reason: grammar




    6. #16
      The Dragoness's Avatar
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      Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      So, a few other thoughts to potential arguments and then I'll stop because Central is clearly not the right place to discuss this if the same, basic words in OutRight Action's mission statement would just show up as a bunch of asterisks. I'm also really going to aim not to get into "politics" even though this entire thing is "political."

      The first: Wizard101 is a kid's game, so anything related to non-straight relationships should not be visible to children.

      Well, let's accept the premise Wizard101 is a kid's game. I'd argue if they did a survey of their active player base, the vast majority are 16/18+, both because their main audience has aged and they haven't done much to bring in new folks, and this shows in their more adult-themed story arcs. But let's accept it.

      Text chat is 13+. Open chat is 18+ AKA not a child. Yet the same words related to orientation and gender-identity are specifically "red." This means this isn't "oh well, just kids can't see it" it's not only can teenagers not be trusted to see this type of language, even adults can't handle this.


      Second argument: These words can be used as insults and have been so heavily abused in the past, KI is filtering them to avoid dealing with an arena full of inappropriate language.

      I'd argue this has significantly changed from 2010 to now. I pick that time because that's when I got text chat, for context. First of all, people will always go around the filters to insult others. But keeping them filtered is a statement saying that the bullies are right, these words are inherently cruel and people shouldn't be able to use them.

      I also disagree... Yes, when I was in elementary school, people did use these words as insult. Doing something "like a girl" was also the pinnacle of playground insults. In my view, which is biased by the states I've lived in and environments I've been in, if someone did come out with one of these, the aggressor would be torn to shreds for this backwards type of insult. I'm not saying kids DON'T insult each other, I'm just saying they've chosen different ways to do it.

      Third argument, which could be considered the hardest to argue against: Well, they're giving to charity. Who cares if you can't say a few specific words? It's for a good cause!

      I think this is the most problematic. Yes, if any of this was for profit, as SO much of the whole Corporate Pride wave is, it would be beyond egregious. They're giving to charity! Great! I'll do some more research and see if I want to donate to them.

      Yet the people the charity supports are so shameful that even allowing the words they would use to self-describe is so absolutely vulgar that no one can say these words in the actual game they're using as a vehicle to raise money.

      It's a shame, because a lot of LBGTQ+ folks (yes, even those under 18!) have come to enjoy wiz over the years, have come to embrace their identities. And yet the game still maintains this taboo.
      Last edited by Willowdreamer; 6-2-22 at 8:33:34 AM. Reason: asterisks


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    7. #17
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      Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      if they really wanna show pride they should do it year around as i feel like league does a better job at rep everyone who has some kind of pride
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    8. #18
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      Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      Quote Originally Posted by The Dragoness View Post
      So if Wizard101 is officially going to be celebrating pride, can we do something about this...? Can we move past 2010's "the word is an insult" phase of censorship in the chat?
      Thanks, I'm sending the image to our team for the word.

    9. #19
      Pegasus Unbound's Avatar
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      Thumbs up Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      OK, a few things. It is legitimately problematic that you view kids being exposed to LBGTQI+ terminology as "put[ting] pressure on them"- by this logic, the countless straight characters in our media and Wizard101 put siminlar pressure on children, but I don't see you complaining about that too!
      Second, we don't want kids going around using words as an insult because it's homophobic, not because they can't understand ***uality.

      Third, kids can understand ***uality just fine. When you say to a kid "oh, I have two dads" they're just gonna say "Cool!" and then run off. It really is that simple, and yet I see adults struggle more with accepting one's identity than kids. We can (And should!) explain what it means to be LBGTQI+ to children- they won't need to understand the intricacies of every identity, but it's in fact more harmful for everyone to leave kids in the dark on this stuff.
      I think you, and others have hit upon a very important thing that needs to be considered.

      The world of 60 years ago I grew up in as a child is VASTLY different that what the kids of today live in. Sure, in my case I was one of those kids rejected from home and lived on the streets of Los Angeles and that made me see things that are similar to what they face today; BUT the majority of kids back then were allowed to be innocent and "kids" a lot longer than the kids of today.

      The kids today are not stupid (As a general rule) unless the have been extremely sheltered by their family or culture. If we don't want to propagate the anger, hatred and discrimination that is literally killing our country and citizens, we must start to be more open and honest with them. It is ALWAYS possible to sit down and discuss things in terms that children can understand based on their mental and physical age.

      Yes, there are some things that need to be "controlled"; but in this new world of technology where kids have access to the internet and social sites we also need to be "real" and answer their questions with honesty. Hate, discrimination and fear are the direct result of a lack of an understanding of the true facts and the ability to respect those facts even when we don't agree with them.

      As far a trying to force the Pride issue wide open on KI, I think there is a need to remember the lessons of the 70's and 80's after Stonewall. If you want and expect to be a part of any society and accepted as you are, you MUST not only understand and respect them with all their differences and opinions, but you MUST also make an open contribution to that society without expecting anything in return or having an 'agenda". Many people dedicated their lives to helping people not fear the community, but at the same time many militant minded people crammed the lifestyle down their throats instilling more fear than what they already had. Any journey starts with a single step and as we get our balance, we start to walk faster and eventually learn to run with the herd.

      Thanks to the hatred and fear in the last 5 years since a certain political group and president made fear and hatred acceptable along with massive misinformation promoting more fear and lies decades of works were set back. So now it is up to everyone to understand we need to work together to show the truth and clear the lies and myths about so many things BEYOND the "Pride" issue.

      I have been having some PMs with @Jester and he is starting to review the edit-bot list as well as look into the areas where some terms are not a "dangerous" as they once were. I am sure that since KI is showing respect for Pride that they too will start the long and very difficult process of more open inclusion...but we must not become militant about it and cause more fear because that militant action only gives the far right more ammunition to use against us all.


    10. #20
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      Re: New Rainbow Roller Mount, & Pride Month!

      Please let's get back to the topic of the Mount and Kingsisle's overall celebration of Pride Month, rather than going "down a rabbit hole" of politics and social commentary. We were trying to allow a little leeway in the discussion here, but...

      Arguing and name calling are against the forum rules:

      Arguments/Fights - Arguing with other members is not allowed. You can disagree with someone, but please make your point without using insults.

      Thank you.

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