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    1. #21
        unicorngirl is offline Initiate Wizard

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      Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      Quote Originally Posted by sparkyflamefire View Post
      I would like to be the first to open a new topic for discussion. It applies more to regular beastmoon, but since we are talking about how to help new players become better players, and I think that new players need to get a certain level of experience in regular Beastmoon before attempting Mayhem (Learn to walk before you run), here goes:

      Is it better to trade flips, or stay and defend what you take? (or, if you prefer, cap. I said 'flip' one time and someone didn't know what I meant. See, even nomenclature needs to be understood by everyone)

      I think the obvious answer is: It depends on the situation.

      i could not agree with your entire post more. in hunt so many players will defend starting alone by saying "they were going to take it". so what? wait for someone to get to you and then defend with a full team. i had one match where someone said to me, when i begged them to leave spiral alone, "if they cap it they get 20 points". where did they get that idea lol.


      Quote Originally Posted by sparkyflamefire View Post
      In one match, we had a player who always got caught starting 1v2 fights. Why? Because he always stayed to defend what he took. He helped us take the spiral, and then stayed to defend it by himself when everybody else left. I even told him to get out of the spiral. But he stayed and got caught in a 1v3 battle in the spiral. And blamed us for abandoning him.

      In another match, they were way ahead, and at 99 points. We won a spiral battle to make it close, but then everybody left, including me, to get healed up and try to flip a ring for the win. I healed up, and was the only one to run back to the spiral where someone on the other team was trying to flip it for the win. So, yeah, I ran into the ring to stop the countdown and was ready to start a 1v1 battle in the spiral. However, when he realized I was there, he stepped out. And we got the win when we flipped a ring.

      And then there was another wizard who started a 1v1 battle in the spiral. I was watching the small map, and went running. I got there just as 2 members of the other team got there as well, to make it a 2v3. I tried telling her that 'usually its not a good idea to try to take the spiral by yourself.' She replied, as many others have, that 'it was 1v1 when it started.' I replied, 'But it doesn't stay that way. If I hadn't come, it would have been 1v3.' Her response? That it was my fault, because they came when I did. "It's that simple" were her exact words. It went to 2v4 before anyone else from our team got there, and we ended up losing the match.

      I can't emphasize enough how important it is to monitor the small map to see if anyone needs help.
      i don't mind a game that starts with a lot of capping, if your team can stay together and navigate the map faster than the other team, you can build a good lead that way. as you say, it comes down to which team has more circles their color, getting more points per cap or flip. i would rather be the team that gets pips before fighting, but it doesn't always go that way. i have played with people like the one you describe. i've started, when someone says they are new, saying "moon and sun are 2v2, star and eye are 3v3, spiral is 4v4" but no one listens. "it was 1v1 when i started" is a red flag for me, i have to admit lol.

      as you say, if you watch the small map, you can help your team before they call for it, which might just be fast enough. you can have a chance to have a 1v1 if everyone else on both teams is busy, but if someone is dead from the other team they may just flee to give your opponent the advantage. it's risky is all i'm saying.

      one thing that drives me crazy is fighting a team that refuses to actually fight. if our team gets a lead going, sometimes the other team seems to only want to cap, so they run away as soon as they see us coming. it's hard sometimes to fight the instinct to try to catch them, to just let the cap so we can cap back.

    2. #22
        sparkyflamefire is online now Journeyman Wizard

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      Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      Quote Originally Posted by unicorngirl View Post

      one thing that drives me crazy is fighting a team that refuses to actually fight. if our team gets a lead going, sometimes the other team seems to only want to cap, so they run away as soon as they see us coming. it's hard sometimes to fight the instinct to try to catch them, to just let the cap so we can cap back.
      I was in a match one time where we lost a couple battles, and fell behind. So someone said "Don't start any more battles. We always lose." I started one anyway, and got yelled at. I mean, how are we supposed to have a chance to come from behind to win the match if we don't fight any battles?

      Some times you have to wonder if some one on your team is really working for the other team. Maybe two players joined up hoping to be on the same team, and when they weren't one sacrificed himself to make it easy for the other one to win. One time as soon as the spiral opened a player went there and as soon as someone from the other started a fight our 'teammate' fled. As soon as he got out of the base, he did it again. I reported that as inappropriate behavior, deliberately throwing the match. That is the one time support replied that it wasn't against the rules. I have been in other matches where someone would start a battle, but after I and other reinforcements arrived the person who started the fight would flee even though they had plenty of life left. You have to wonder.

      Edit:

      One feature I forgot to mention earlier: Press the TAB key to see the teams, both yours and the other side. Comes in handy to see if one side has missing players, what forms people have,etc.
      Last edited by sparkyflamefire; 5-21-21 at 12:20:21 PM.

    3. #23
        richardDkht is offline Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      Quote Originally Posted by Willowdreamer View Post
      Reading this thread, I just wanted to add my own two cents about why many players do NOT attempt Beastmoon Mayhem.

      Never having tried this before - I would be the player who took too long to choose a form, even though I have done a few Beastmoon Hunt events, because I am uncertain what to choose, and possibly because other players choose what I was looking it at before I could finalize my choice. Once I got into the battle arena, I would be the slow one, the uncertain one, the unhelpful one -- picking the wrong spells, or doing nothing quick enough -- possibly even get Reported for not doing anything, simply because I may not know what to do.

      The feeling I get from seasoned players here is NOT welcoming, encouraging or helpful - it's judgmental and angry. The fact that this Event is timed so very tightly puts huge pressure on the newest player. Seasoned players who place all this blame need to rethink how they communicate and put themselves back into those new shoes when THEY didn't know all that they know. It sounds like there just isn't time to educate as well as play.

      No, thank you, Kingsisle -- punishing innocent players for not knowing how to play something like this would be so very unfair when it's designed to be this complicated.

      the wise thing to do when joining a team as a new player is to ask for tutoring.

      I don't mind telling a player to follow me and explaining a little as long as they follow my lead.

      I do mind players that want to experiment on their own in the short time given. Again, as I said several times already, timer is too short to properly teach someone, so either they play as an extension of myself or they'll ruin the game to all.

      And the guy that goes in circles because they want to decide on their own what they are doing is plainly wrong. But they should be told so right before entering the event.
      " I can solve any issues in the world, except those originated by human stupidity"
      ".. that leaves out A LOT.."

    4. #24
      Pegasus Unbound's Avatar
        Pegasus Unbound is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Cool Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      I want to take a moment to get us back on target here.

      You have pointed out many, many issues with LOTS of examples. These are all things we already know about. What we need to do is stop beating a dead horse and offer solutions instead of more complaints.

      Let's keep this simple for those not really familiar with the events. I have read, with much pleasure, the many details that have been pointed out that I have encountered myself, but they are becoming overwhelming at best.

      I love Beastmoon, and I want to provide @Sparck and the DEVs with constructive ideas on how to fix these issues. You all are the "experts" so let's put our knowledge and skills to use and offer productive solutions and suggestions.
      @Willowdreamer has pointed out why many won't even try to play, and rightly so. These are things we can all agree on that need to be solved, not re-hashed over and over. @Willowdreamer, what suggestions would you make that might change your mind on Beastmoon events? I think you, and others in your situation offer the best clues for finding solutions.

    5. #25
      Willowdreamer's Avatar
        Willowdreamer is offline W101C Team Leader

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      Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      Quote Originally Posted by richardDkht View Post
      the wise thing to do when joining a team as a new player is to ask for tutoring.

      I don't mind telling a player to follow me and explaining a little as long as they follow my lead.

      I do mind players that want to experiment on their own in the short time given. Again, as I said several times already, timer is too short to properly teach someone, so either they play as an extension of myself or they'll ruin the game to all.

      And the guy that goes in circles because they want to decide on their own what they are doing is plainly wrong. But they should be told so right before entering the event.
      I'm not disagreeing with your points. However, some percentage of the players trying the Event are kids who have been raised on video games and are pretty much jumping in the deep end to sink or swim because they THINK they are good at them all. They aren't going to know what they don't know, and they may or may not have attitude about it. They aren't here reading your advice, either. Some of them are trolls, I get it. Some are casual players like me who only want to try to get some event points and a pet (I have NOT yet attempted to participate, just so you know).

      You can EXPECT people to walk before they run, and play the way you think they should, but it IS a game, and many players want to treat it like one. You can't make them an extension of yourself and they won't take it as seriously as you do.

      Watchtower Hall crafted 7/21/10 -- Guides: Crafting Stations, here -- Crafted Grizzleheim Housing Items here -- Mirkholm Keep Ore/Diamonds here -- Cave of Solitude Black Lotus here

    6. #26
        richardDkht is offline Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      Quote Originally Posted by Willowdreamer View Post

      You can EXPECT people to walk before they run, and play the way you think they should, but it IS a game, and many players want to treat it like one. You can't make them an extension of yourself and they won't take it as seriously as you do.

      the way this event is set up it's the same as olympics are.

      You don't expect a person that participate in olympic games to behave the same as they do when doing classroom competitions, in the first case you gotta take it more "seriously" than in the second.

      Now, what I do reproach to KI is that they are not making this as clear as it should.
      W101 is a game, and these events are another. The separation ought to be made more evident, but once one has jumped in, they are in a proper competition and should behave so.

      And yes, if they don't plan to, there is a whole full game outside of this where they can have fun, so the best thing to do is to go away and never join this specific thing again.

      Thant's how the logic that KI created goes.

      And it's technically possible to get all the prizes without competing - in a slower way, of course, by using the SoF rewards only. The only thing that will remain unchecked will be badges.
      " I can solve any issues in the world, except those originated by human stupidity"
      ".. that leaves out A LOT.."

    7. #27
      Willowdreamer's Avatar
        Willowdreamer is offline W101C Team Leader

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      Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      Quote Originally Posted by Pegasus Unbound View Post
      @Willowdreamer has pointed out why many won't even try to play, and rightly so. These are things we can all agree on that need to be solved, not re-hashed over and over. @Willowdreamer, what suggestions would you make that might change your mind on Beastmoon events? I think you, and others in your situation offer the best clues for finding solutions.
      I don't know that there are solutions for those of us who won't ever measure up, and don't want to be exposed to the anxiety. The Beastmoon Events may have put all players on an even playing field way back in the beginning when introduced, but as @richardDkht states, over time it has developed into a situation where there are now elites who have mastered their forms and strategies, and who are "in it to win it" -- perhaps that is the way it was intended, just like the Arena and PvP.

      If only the non-combat related events also included rewards such as unique pets and Spellements, casual players wouldn't be as left behind, which is the perception. Will the Spiral Showcase or Daily Assignments ever reward top spots with Spellements, @Sparck?

      Watchtower Hall crafted 7/21/10 -- Guides: Crafting Stations, here -- Crafted Grizzleheim Housing Items here -- Mirkholm Keep Ore/Diamonds here -- Cave of Solitude Black Lotus here

    8. #28
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      Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      If only the non-combat related events also included rewards such as unique pets and Spellements, casual players wouldn't be as left behind, which is the perception. Will the Spiral Showcase or Daily Assignments ever reward top spots with Spellements, @Sparck?
      It's more than a perception. I agree completely @Willowdreamer... I was treated badly in the beastmoon events I tried. People were just plain cruel and vicious. I don't need the anxiety of trying again, and by the way I DID tell people i was new - only once did someone say they would help me figure it out.... So basically, i don't want to ever participate again so i don't have to subject myself to that. Let the elite do their thing, but the end result is that I can no longer get enough points to make it through the Spiral Showcase .
      Perhaps consider giving us non-Beastmoon folks an alternate path to take for the spiral showcase?
      Happy trails!


    9. #29
        sparkyflamefire is online now Journeyman Wizard

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      Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      I like to think that I am a good player, but I know that I'm not in that .1% that KI seems to be catering to in all the recent, optional material. I have complained myself about this, only to be told that 'KI shouldn't cater to the least common denominator.' And the Mayhem event falls into that category. Saying that 'It's just a game' is somewhat of a cop out.

      The hardest thing I've ever had to do in a Beastmoon match is convince my teammates not to start a spiral battle. We're up 99-whatever and the other side is at the spiral trying to goad us into starting a fight.. All we have to do is wait until the time limit expires and we win. "That's boring." "I want to have fun." "What's wrong with taking a little risk?" "It's taking too long." Some of us DO care about winning. I think that a nice boring win is more fun than taking a risk and starting a fight and possibly lose it and the match. I get it, that many players don't agree. But many do.

      This may sound harsh, but Mayhem is not the place to learn the basics of Beastmoon. Do that in regular beastmoon first. One time a teammate said "I hate this event" I asked why they played. "I need the points and want the rewards." So they punched the clock doing something they hated for a few points, and dragged the team down so that we didn't even complete Wave 1. Makes it frustrating for us who do want to win, or at least score more points and get better rewards. To get in one match what otherwise ends up taking 4-5 matches.

      There is no easy solution that will please everyone. I don't think KI is interested in simultaneous events, one for players who want to win, and one for players who just want to have fun. All I can say is: It is what it is. In the deckathalon, you can do what you want and don't have to worry about what your teammates do, or don't do. Mayhem isn't like that. And if you don't like the environment, don't play.

      I just finished a match where one player kept trying to use the teleporter when he hadn't even picked a form yet. I tried telling him that he needed to pick a form first, but guess what- He didn't have text chat. Frustrating for the rest of the team. I've been saying for a long time that in Beastmoon we need some way to communicate with such players besides the small selection of phrases available in menu chat, especially in Mayhem. But KI doesn't seem to care.

      EDIT:

      By the way, if the top reward for this event is supposed to be 10 SPIRITUAL Spellements, why did my STORM just get 4 Lightening Bat Spellements and 5 GRRRNADIR Spellements? At least it now lets me transfer them to my Life wizard.

      Last edited by sparkyflamefire; 5-22-21 at 5:15:39 PM.

    10. #30
      Willowdreamer's Avatar
        Willowdreamer is offline W101C Team Leader

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      Re: Beastmoon Monster Mayhem, thru 5/24

      Quote Originally Posted by sparkyflamefire View Post
      This may sound harsh, but Mayhem is not the place to learn the basics of Beastmoon. Do that in regular beastmoon first. One time a teammate said "I hate this event" I asked why they played. "I need the points and want the rewards." So they punched the clock doing something they hated for a few points, and dragged the team down so that we didn't even complete Wave 1. Makes it frustrating for us who do want to win, or at least score more points and get better rewards. To get in one match what otherwise ends up taking 4-5 matches.
      This paragraph illustrates that we understand each other, even from our opposite viewpoints. Everyone who needs points for the Scroll of Fortune feels forced to participate in Events like Mayhem, because Beastmoon can give so many more Scroll points than the casual Events like the Spiral Showcase or Pet Promenade, which have a fixed (lower) daily point reward cap and what some might say are less desirable event rewards.

      Kingsisle is focusing on Beastmoon to cater to the combat-oriented players (like themselves, I guess?) who want combat challenges, and that's fine so far as it goes - BUT, linking Events to the Scroll of Fortune, and the scheduling of these Events is throwing us all together and we're not liking it.

      Do casual wizards even have a path to get sufficient Scroll of Fortune points without participating in some of the combat-related events? I don't think so...

      Watchtower Hall crafted 7/21/10 -- Guides: Crafting Stations, here -- Crafted Grizzleheim Housing Items here -- Mirkholm Keep Ore/Diamonds here -- Cave of Solitude Black Lotus here

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