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    1. #11
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Arrow Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      Quote Originally Posted by Willowdreamer View Post
      Kingsisle is complying with the federal children's online safety requirements. And, yes - they could mute you as well for such a statement in-game.
      Can you direct me to this law please? I've never heard of it, and it just sounds a bit absurd that kids games would have to follow such rules.. I mean, just look at Minecraft! Outside links and social media tags are completely fine in that E10+ game, so why not Wiz?



      Quote Originally Posted by edward sky View Post
      If they have open chat outside tags should be able to be shared/at least mentioned without bans/mutes... (Whether in a whisper to an open chat Wizard only, or through one of the following systems: Or at least give us a way to communicate outside the game "safely" e.x (Offline mailbox, a chat feature on the wizard101 Forum board PMS (like the official ones on website itself etc..
      Bear in mind that open chat is only available for Members and people who have made a purchase of $6 or more in the past 30 days. Honestly, open chat should be unlocked forever if you input your age as 18 or older or if you've spent "X" amount of money total.



      Quote Originally Posted by edward sky View Post
      Sorry to hear about the unfairness of it's length, a warning would have been more proper or checking their account for age (if they registered as a trackable one etc) would be more preferable.
      So many scandals could be solved if Support checked things like this before resorting to the ban/mute hammer.. I wonder if the Player can successfully overturn this harsh mute on the basis that they were never issued a warning.


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    2. #12
      MeganFrostFlame's Avatar
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      Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      Can you direct me to this law please? I've never heard of it, and it just sounds a bit absurd that kids games would have to follow such rules.. I mean, just look at Minecraft! Outside links and social media tags are completely fine in that E10+ game, so why not Wiz?





      Bear in mind that open chat is only available for Members and people who have made a purchase of $6 or more in the past 30 days. Honestly, open chat should be unlocked forever if you input your age as 18 or older or if you've spent "X" amount of money total.
      The federal law they're talking about is called COPPA "Children's Online Privacy Protection Act". It was put in place to protect kids under the age of 13 which is why accounts that were made with their age 12 and under automatically have menu chat and filtered text chat can be turned on through the master account settings. This law presumably shouldn't apply to Open Chat players since people with menu chat can't see anything other than those chat options and at time sometimes filtered chat since they can't see certain words open chat has access to.

      Also Open Chat is available to everyone 18+ as long as you've made a single $5 or $6 purchase once, and have it permanently unless you're muted by Kingsisle.

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    3. #13
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Exclamation Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      Quote Originally Posted by Pegasus Unbound View Post
      Let's stop beating a dead horse and remember that when we ALL started to play, we agreed to follow the rules. If you did not, or do not like the rules, stop playing. It's that simple.
      Why are you trying to shut down this conversation? Times are changing and Wiz needs to change with them if it is to survive. The fact of the matter is that this game is dying (Pirate is already dead and buried), despite the pandemic fueled spike in activity. And with Gamigo having a reputation of killing off MMOs, things will only get worse from here.
      We need to hold these tough discussions, and KingsIsle needs to listen to them, because if the game doesn't adapt to the current meta it won't last much longer. Transformation in either direction will be painful, but because I care about this game's future I'll stick through it.

      A Glassdoor review of KingsIsle pre-pandemic shared an interesting statistic. Each month they were seeing a 5% drop in active Players, but mentioning such dark signs or potential solutions Players wanted got you shut down. Silence will only serve to paralyze this game's growth even more, and that's why we all must speak up.





      @MeganFrostFlame

      Thank you for the help! This is some information I gleaned about the law:


      10. I know the COPPA Rule is triggered by the collection of personal information from children, but the information I collect at my site or service is voluntary, not mandatory. Does COPPA still apply?
      Yes. The Rule governs the online collection of personal information from children by a covered operator, even if children volunteer the information or are not required by the operator to input the information to participate on the website or service. The Rule also covers operators that allow children publicly to post personal information. Finally, the Rule defines “collection” to include the passive tracking of children’s personal information through a persistent identifier, and not just active collection. See 16 C.F.R. § 312.2 (definition of “collection”).
      Because KingsIsle (Presumably) keeps chatlogs, I'm guessing that Alia Breaker's account was set at an age under 13 when it was first created.. And because that number can never change (KingsIsle can't track our age), KingsIsle is forced to treat their account like a child's who was sharing personal information. It makes sense that they can't risk children entering personal information that would then be stored on their servers, since that would technically be a violation of COPPA.
      But still, that raises the question of why they decided to harshly punish this decidedly innocent act of willingly sharing a social media tag. Why not simply warn Alia and delete the personal information from their chatlogs? A warning would deter Players from making the same mistake while preserving the peace and customer loyalty! This extreme 10 year mute just feels retaliatory and spiteful, to be honest.


      Last edited by JaredSpellFrost; 5-5-21 at 11:03:20 PM.

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    4. #14
      Pegasus Unbound's Avatar
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      Cool Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      Why are you trying to shut down this conversation? Times are changing and Wiz needs to change with them if it is to survive. The fact of the matter is that this game is dying, despite the pandemic fueled spike in activity. And with Gamigo having a reputation of killing off MMOs, things will only get worse from here.
      We need to hold these tough discussions, and KingsIsle needs to listen to them, because if the game doesn't adapt to the current meta it won't last much longer. Transformation in either direction will be painful, but because I care about this game's future I'll stick through it.

      A Glassdoor review of KingsIsle pre-pandemic shared an interesting statistic. Each month they were seeing a 5% drop in active Players, but mentioning such dark signs or potential solutions Players wanted got you shut down. Silence will only serve to paralyze this game's growth even more, and that's why we all must speak up.




      @MeganFrostFlame

      Thank you for the help! This is some information I gleaned about the law:




      Because KingsIsle (Presumably) keeps chatlogs, I'm guessing that Alia Breaker's account was set at an age under 13 when it was first created.. And because that number can never change, KingsIsle is forced to treat their account like a child's who was sharing personal information. It makes sense that they can't risk children entering personal information that would then be stored on their servers, since that would technically be a violation of COPPA.
      But still, that raises the question of why they decided to harshly punish this decidedly innocent act of willingly sharing a social media tag. Why not simply warn Alia and delete the personal information from their chatlogs? A warning would deter Players from making the same mistake while preserving the peace and customer loyalty!


      I am not trying to shut down the thread. If the discussion is just that, discussion, I am all for it. But if you look at the posts, it has started to go from discussion to something else.

      Keep it productive and I will back you up, but when it turns away from the facts and forgetting KI is a success private company, then I get concerned. Be fair in your argument, be productive and make a real effort to make a change happen. Do that, and I will be behind you 100%.

      Too many just complain and point fingers, be a part of a productive conversation and make change happen.
      "Yes, My Lord"

    5. #15
      SeptenaryRavens's Avatar
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      Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      The internet is a strange place. It's more than just US federal laws that KI has to watch out for. If, for example, the European Commission (EU) passed stricter legislation to protect minors online, KI would have to oblige by those laws too, since KI's games are played by folks all over the world.

      This situation sounds similar to going twice the speed limit and passing a ghost car in the process. Be wary of who you share information with online, especially personal information. Unless you know someone personally, don't trust anyone online. Body language is one of the most essential parts of communication, and through text it is completely lost. Because of that, internet folks' true intentions are never crystal clear. There are thousands of other games out there that I'm sure allow the sharing of personal information, Wizard101 just isn't one of those places.




    6. #16
      Jack Dragonshield's Avatar
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      Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      If Open Chat is 18+. which it is, I see no reason why KI should be muting/banning anyone for sharing a an off-game username.
      If someone with Text Chat (i.e. by the game's definition <18 years old) tries to do it, sure, mute/ban them.

      If the argument is that some kids have open chat for lying about their age, that is not KI's fault honestly. And quite honestly, ban the kid for breaking the rule. Twitter does the same thing- they ban people who lie about their age.

      That's my take^. Any arguments against that?

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    7. #17
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Post Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      Quote Originally Posted by Jack Dragonshield View Post
      IIf someone with Text Chat (i.e. by the game's definition <18 years old) tries to do it, sure, mute/ban them. If the argument is that some kids have open chat for lying about their age, that is not KI's fault honestly. And quite honestly, ban the kid for breaking the rule. Twitter does the same thing- they ban people who lie about their age.
      Your account automatically has access to Text Chat if you set your age to be 13 years or older upon creating it, and through the use of a Master Password (Which parents/guardians would know for a kid's account) you can toggle Text Chat if the Player's age was initially entered as 12 and under. Open chat is also available to those who pay for Membership for $6 and more each month on accounts younger than 18.
      My take is that if you have text chat, then it's fair game to swap social media names since this chat is intended for those 13 and older, because COPPA is a lot less strict with teens. Therefore, Alia's crazy ten year mute is entirely unfounded since they were either using text or open chat to convey their "personal" information.




      COPPA actually addresses kids lying about their age:

      12. Will the COPPA Rule prevent children from lying about their age to register for general audience sites or online services whose terms of service prohibit their participation?
      No. COPPA covers operators of general audience websites or online services only where such operators have actual knowledge that a child under age 13 is the person providing personal information. The Rule does not require operators to ask the age of visitors. However, an operator of a general audience site or service that chooses to screen its users for age in a neutral fashion may rely on the age information its users enter, even if that age information is not accurate. In some circumstances, this may mean that children are able to register on a site or service in violation of the operator’s Terms of Service. If, however, the operator later determines that a particular user is a child under age 13, COPPA’s notice and parental consent requirements will be triggered.

      Importantly, however, a website or online service may be deemed directed to children even if its Terms of Service prohibits children from using the site or service. In determining whether a particular site or service is directed to children, the FTC will consider the factors set forth in the Rule. See 16 C.F.R. 312.2 (definition of “Web site or online service directed to children”); see also FAQs Section D.

      TL;DR:
      Companies must treat age specific information given to them as accurate, but if they discover somebody is under the age of 13 then COPPA will be enforced. I doubt that KingsIsle will ever be able to definitively prove somebody has lied about their age, however.


      People shouldn't be banned or even muted for sharing personal information/lying about their age. 99% of the time it's gonna be consensual, and KingsIsle can just let them off with a warning and delete the chatlogs. Resorting to the banhammer for such a minor offense is honestly pretty barbaric, and will only hurt community/company relations.

      Last edited by JaredSpellFrost; 5-6-21 at 12:22:50 AM.

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    8. #18
      Jack Dragonshield's Avatar
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      Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      Your account automatically has access to Text Chat if you set your age to be 13 years or older upon creating it, and through the use of a Master Password (Which parents/guardians would know for a kid's account) you can toggle Text Chat if the Player's age was initially entered as 12 and under. Open chat is also available to those who pay for Membership for $6 and more each month on accounts younger than 18.
      My take is that if you have text chat, then it's fair game to swap social media names since this chat is intended for those 13 and older, because COPPA is a lot less strict with teens. Therefore, Alia's crazy ten year mute is entirely unfounded since they were either using text or open chat to convey their "personal" information.
      I feel like if they wanna create a safe environment for kids, then maybe 13 year-olds shouldn't be sharing usernames. That's why I'm okay with them banning/ muting Text Chat accounts.

      But really? Banning or even punishing an 18+ age open chat account for that? I really can't agree with their reasoning on that.
      Last edited by Jack Dragonshield; 5-6-21 at 12:28:00 AM.

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    9. #19
      Pegasus Unbound's Avatar
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      Cool Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      Quote Originally Posted by Jack Dragonshield View Post
      If Open Chat is 18+. which it is, I see no reason why KI should be muting/banning anyone for sharing a an off-game username.
      If someone with Text Chat (i.e. by the game's definition <18 years old) tries to do it, sure, mute/ban them.

      If the argument is that some kids have open chat for lying about their age, that is not KI's fault honestly. And quite honestly, ban the kid for breaking the rule. Twitter does the same thing- they ban people who lie about their age.

      That's my take^. Any arguments against that?
      I agree in large part with you, but I do have a concern or 2.

      When information is shared, it is difficult at best to ensure it is only a user name and not a real name, let alone more private information.

      If we were talking about a small quantity of occurrances, it is easy to monitor, but when you think of the hundreds of thousands of chats it becomes almost impossible. Imagine the work force needed to investigate and double check all those chat logs; what would that increase in staff do to the cost of the game?

      I think the length of time for the first offense would be too much, instead a warning would have been enough, Second a short mute, but third...well that's just asking for trouble.
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    10. #20
      Jack Dragonshield's Avatar
        Jack Dragonshield is offline Magus Wizard

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      Re: 10 Year Mute For Sharing Chat Server Tag

      Quote Originally Posted by Pegasus Unbound View Post
      I agree in large part with you, but I do have a concern or 2.

      When information is shared, it is difficult at best to ensure it is only a user name and not a real name, let alone more private information.

      If we were talking about a small quantity of occurrances, it is easy to monitor, but when you think of the hundreds of thousands of chats it becomes almost impossible. Imagine the work force needed to investigate and double check all those chat logs; what would that increase in staff do to the cost of the game?

      I think the length of time for the first offense would be too much, instead a warning would have been enough, Second a short mute, but third...well that's just asking for trouble.

      Hi, thanks for the reply.

      In response to that, I would say:

      We don't really know the capacity of their staff (in terms of dealing with reports). Maybe they are properly equipped, I honestly wouldn't doubt it. The most we can do is speculate, unless there is an official response by them.
      But in addition, I definitely agree that there needs to be some level of censorship. We don't want this game to become the wild-west, that would be terrible. I just don't want them to be this harsh, and I feel like they need to understand that most of their loyal fanbase who grew up with the game is 18+ now, and the harsh punishments won't sit well with many.


      If a Text Chat user is speaking to a Text chat user and they try to share info, mute/ ban
      If an Open Chat user is speaking to a Text Chat user and they try to share info, insta-ban/mute.

      But:
      If an Open Chat user is speaking to an Open Chat user, go easy on them.

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