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    1. #11
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Thumbs down Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      Quote Originally Posted by Robobot1747 View Post
      Honestly who even puts up three shields of the same type? Against any other school you'd get overtimed and lose them all. I did the math and the expected damage value to your opponent is around 264 on an open shot (so around Lightning Bats level but a chance to hit yourself) and through one 70% shield it's 196 vs bats' 79.5. Most DOT spells take out two of your shields before you have a chance to react anyway (initial hit + first tick) and this doesn't leave anything on you to break shields you cast later. I would rate this spell as "playable," not anywhere near "overpowered" though.
      You're forgetting that DoTs continuously "prevent" shield placement, but have counters in the form of Triage, Mass Triage, and Cooldown. Other ward wrecking utility such as Pierce and Shatter have counters too, so tell me- where's the utility that nullifies this new Insane Bolt? Aegis and Triage won't work, and so all of a sudden your opponent for a measly two pips has wiped out your Storm and Tower shields in one round.
      This altered Insane Bolt is too strong because it has no counters and will usually remove 3+ shields in one round. Diviners do need some spells to deal with wards, but it shouldn't come at the expense of existing spells and it shouldn't be insanely OP!


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    2. #12
      Patrick FairyStalker's Avatar
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      Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      You're forgetting that DoTs continuously "prevent" shield placement, but have counters in the form of Triage, Mass Triage, and Cooldown. Other ward wrecking utility such as Pierce and Shatter have counters too, so tell me- where's the utility that nullifies this new Insane Bolt? Aegis and Triage won't work, and so all of a sudden your opponent for a measly two pips has wiped out your Storm and Tower shields in one round.
      This altered Insane Bolt is too strong because it has no counters and will usually remove 3+ shields in one round. Diviners do need some spells to deal with wards, but it shouldn't come at the expense of existing spells and it shouldn't be insanely OP!

      The best response is put on another shield.

      People rarely have 3 of the same shield in PvP. But, for the sake of argument, let's say I'm in a situation where I do.

      Situation 1: my opponent uses lightning elf
      My opponent uses lightning elf on me, and I respond with triage. When it's my turn to cast a spell, I will have already lost 2 shields.
      Result: My opponent now has to deal with my 1 shield. I am also down 1 pip due to the Triage cost.

      Situation 2: my opponent uses new insane bolt
      My opponent uses the new insane bolt and gets the lucky 51% chance where all 3 shields are broken. In response, I use 1 shield.
      Result: My opponent now has to deal with my 1 shield. I used no pips.

      TLDR in the best case (51%), the new insane bolt is slightly worse than lightning elf, because I had to use the 1 pip triage for the elf instead of a 0 pip shield. In every other case (49%), the bolt hits self, making it much worse than lightning elf because they will still have at least one shield on.




      Let's also discuss the more likely scenarios of the opponent having 1 or 2 of the same shield.

      Situation 1: my opponent uses lightning elf

      My opponent uses lightning elf. Whether I have 1 or 2 shields, I will lose both by the time I use triage.
      Result: I am now defenseless. I have no shields, and I used up 1 pip.

      Situation 2: my opponent uses new insane bolt
      My opponent uses the new insane bolt and gets the lucky 51% chance. All 1 or 2 shields are broken. In response, I use 1 shield.
      Result: My opponent has to deal with my 1 shield. I used no pips.

      TLDR this new insane bolt is just a worse lightning elf.

      The only advantage is that insane bolt can do slightly more damage than elf. I'd go as far to say that this spell needs to be better (such as a gradual increase like 100, 150, 200 damage?)

      There are still niche situations where this new insane bolt is meaningful though. Let's say both players are at <1000HP. The storm has 2-4 pips, no shadow pip, and will likely die the next round or so. The opponent has a shield on. This new insane bolt can be a hail mary to finish off the opponent 51% of the time. So it has its uses.
      Last edited by Patrick FairyStalker; 4-27-21 at 9:45:03 PM.

    3. #13
      edward sky's Avatar
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      Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      To put it bluntly, thanks I hate it.

      Edward sky/Life/102/
      And may the odds be ever in your favour.

    4. #14
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Thumbs down Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      @Patrick FairyStalker

      First off, wasn't Lightning Elf banned in the Spring Update audit? Second, you are completely neglecting the fact that this Insane Bolt has no counters and will likely remove 3+ shields at once, which is blatantly OP.


      With the poorly construed Golem spells added, the Arena will see more situational specific school shields- wards that this spell will be incredibly effective against. It can be difficult to remove Towers, but even more so to knock off same type shields, especially if you have a Blade up. Before this Insane Bolt downgrade, to deal with a Tower/Volcanic Shield combo a Diviner would either be forced into using Storm Beetle (A spell that shouldn't have been banned, just reworked) or Lightning Bats. But now a Storm wizard can take off your Tower, Volcanic Shield, and whatever identical wards you have hiding behind those with a single hit.
      I'll remind you that this utility is drawing too many parallels between Fire and Myth, schools that stand opposite of Storm. Talk about preserving school identity!



      You claim that a counter to this spell is to just cast another Tower Shield, but this is a drastic oversimplification. Not only could this lose you a tempo, the new Insane Bolt will often be used in preparation of a beefy hit, as is Storm's style. You most likely will not have the nessacary time to restock all of the wards you require to shield yourself from such a blow, all because Insane Bolt takes off 3+ shields in a single round.
      If I have 3 identical shields up, it is in no way balanced for a single spell to take them out in just one round! This spell is a good idea in theory, but it's evident that the Devs are not versed in the language of design and dueling. While I appreciate that the self damaging aspect relates to the Death school, the spell (Or rather, concept because Insane Bolt was fine as-is) obviously needs more work. But sloppy design is what you get when you don't let Players review these changes in Test beforehand though, I guess.




      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      There are still niche situations where this new insane bolt is meaningful though. Let's say both players are at <1000HP. The storm has 2-4 pips, no shadow pip, and will likely die the next round or so. The opponent has a shield on. This new insane bolt can be a hail mary to finish off the opponent 51% of the time. So it has its uses.
      The original Insane Bolt served this last resort strategy much better than it's current version, just sayin.



      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    5. #15
      Cosmos's Avatar
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      Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      I get to these discussions way too late. I was gonna make the not-so-insane bolt joke too.

      Don't really know about this. Insane bolt always seemed like the quintessential "Hail Mary" spell. I guess it continues to fill that role somewhat but still.
      Come back alive. It'd be an awfully empty galaxy without you. - Garrus Vakarian // I also write my own stuff ~

    6. #16
      Patrick FairyStalker's Avatar
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      Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      @Patrick FairyStalker

      First off, wasn't Lightning Elf banned in the Spring Update audit? Second, you are completely neglecting the fact that this Insane Bolt has no counters and will likely remove 3+ shields at once, which is blatantly OP.


      With the poorly construed Golem spells added, the Arena will see more situational specific school shields- wards that this spell will be incredibly effective against. It can be difficult to remove Towers, but even more so to knock off same type shields, especially if you have a Blade up. Before this Insane Bolt downgrade, to deal with a Tower/Volcanic Shield combo a Diviner would either be forced into using Storm Beetle (A spell that shouldn't have been banned, just reworked) or Lightning Bats. But now a Storm wizard can take off your Tower, Volcanic Shield, and whatever identical wards you have hiding behind those with a single hit.
      I'll remind you that this utility is drawing too many parallels between Fire and Myth, schools that stand opposite of Storm. Talk about preserving school identity!



      You claim that a counter to this spell is to just cast another Tower Shield, but this is a drastic oversimplification. Not only could this lose you a tempo, the new Insane Bolt will often be used in preparation of a beefy hit, as is Storm's style. You most likely will not have the nessacary time to restock all of the wards you require to shield yourself from such a blow, all because Insane Bolt takes off 3+ shields in a single round.
      If I have 3 identical shields up, it is in no way balanced for a single spell to take them out in just one round! This spell is a good idea in theory, but it's evident that the Devs are not versed in the language of design and dueling. While I appreciate that the self damaging aspect relates to the Death school, the spell (Or rather, concept because Insane Bolt was fine as-is) obviously needs more work. But sloppy design is what you get when you don't let Players review these changes in Test beforehand though, I guess.





      The original Insane Bolt served this last resort strategy much better than it's current version, just sayin.


      Yes, lightning elf was audited. I was specifically responding to your comment on how DoTs have counters, but this new insane bolt somehow doesn't. Lightning elf was my closest base of comparison. Lightning elf was also single-handedly keeping storm (almost) competitive. This new insane bolt is a worse version of that lightning elf, so storm is at a net negative*.

      I know that removing 3 shields in a single round adds shock value to your post, but I still fail to understand how it's OP.
      1) Using triage is a loss in momentum.
      2) Digging and finding aegis enchants to counter shatter/pierce is a loss in momentum.
      3) Using shields might be a loss in momentum. (I'd argue it isn't, because comparably shields are easy to find and cost 0 pips)
      Out of the three, I'd say that shields are the easiest to find in almost every deck (in-deck shields, side TC towers, side deck elemental shields, etc). Besides, using 3+ of the same shield together is almost always a bad strategy. This is just another reason not to.

      And yes, the old insane bolt was a much better hail mary strategy. A previous post/video touched on the logic behind reworking insane bolt. I agree that this spell still needs a rework, but it is certainly not overpowered.

      *With lightning elf, storm was dead last.
      Without lightning elf, storm was dead last.
      I can assure you, with this new insane bolt, storm will still be dead last, because this insane bolt is just a worse lightning elf.

      Lastly, with Eric on the team now, trust me when I say the KI team is now very, very well versed in design and dueling. Especially with storm.
      Last edited by Patrick FairyStalker; 4-28-21 at 12:22:27 AM.

    7. #17
      MeganFrostFlame's Avatar
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      Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      The change to Insane Bolt is one of the more obvious changes in favor of PvP. I always saw the original Insane Bolt spell to be a last resort spell that you'd use when either nothing else worth using was in your hand or you and your opponent were one hit away from dying. This change definitely won't allow that anymore. With only 145 damage, I guess we should start calling this spell "Mild Bolt" from now on.

      KI really should've put this change in test realm instead of rushing that update out so that people could test it. Although this might be somewhat useful for PvP it could be a nuisance in PvE. I'd be really annoyed if a team of mine was stacking feints on a boss that has Insane in their deck and they cast it, it backfires, and takes all the traps on a 145 damage spell.

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    8. #18
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      YI know that removing 3 shields in a single round adds shock value to your post, but I still fail to understand how it's OP.
      Three shields equates to three rounds of stacking wards, compared to just one round of removal. Storm can essentially gain 3+ rounds of tempo with this spell all at once- that is blatantly over powered, especially when you consider that DoTs (Which are not and should NOT be part of Storm's arsenal) take three rounds for the same effect!





      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      1) Using triage is a loss in momentum.2) Digging and finding aegis enchants to counter shatter/pierce is a loss in momentum.3) Using shields might be a loss in momentum. (I'd argue it isn't, because comparably shields are easy to find and cost 0 pips)Out of the three, I'd say that shields are the easiest to find in almost every deck (in-deck shields, side TC towers, side deck elemental shields, etc).
      Using Triage does lose you a round, but it could save you a few wards. Plus, it's a direct counter that actually exists.

      Proper deck setup and planning should ensure that you pull an Aegis against a Myth when you need it. If you're smart with what you discard, pulling an Aegis in time for that Mystic Colossus should be child's play.

      Wards won't knock out your opponent and secure a victory, only offensive spells can do that. If your defenses were secure against a Diviner (A necessity to guard against being hit for mass) but were suddenly shattered in a single round, good luck building up that offensive pressure again! It's more than likely that your thunderous opponent will be hitting after that preparation, and that could mean being stunned, disarmed, or knocked out now that your wards are reduced to atoms.




      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      Besides, using 3+ of the same shield together is almost always a bad strategy. This is just another reason not to.
      With the sloppy Golem spells and resist cap, shield stacking should become more common. I can easily see setups of a Volcanic and double Tower Shield, especially when you take Weaver into the equation. But you seem to be missing the point that if you have stacked Towers and don't want your opponent to wipe them out with a Wand, then setting up a set shield is a strategy obliterated by this new Insane Bolt.




      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      *With lightning elf, storm was dead last.Without lightning elf, storm was dead last.I can assure you, with this new insane bolt, storm will still be dead last, because this insane bolt is just a worse lightning elf.
      A single spell won't tip the scale either way for the Storm school, not when they're completely outclassed by Fire. Of course a well thought out counter to shield stacking would help, but such a spell won't end Storm's troubles. So long as Fire has superior damage, health, resist, and utility in an Arena where stat caps are not applied individually to each school, Storm will always come in last.


      KingsIsle: Let's ban Storm Beetle, a useful spell that fits with Storm's school identity!
      Also KingsIsle: Why is Storm doing so bad in the Arena?



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      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    9. #19
      Robobot1747's Avatar
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      Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      Three shields equates to three rounds of stacking wards, compared to just one round of removal. Storm can essentially gain 3+ rounds of tempo with this spell all at once- that is blatantly over powered, especially when you consider that DoTs (Which are not and should NOT be part of Storm's arsenal) take three rounds for the same effect!
      Yes, that's true. So maybe consider not doing that. Since you know storm wizards can do that to your shields, don't waste rounds putting layers on when they can just be bolted off.

      Also, 3 shields would be broken by a DOT in 2 rounds, not 3. You're also assuming that each bolt hits the opponent, when there's almost a 50% chance of getting bolted yourself at least once. That also breaks your own towers, and in a mirror match, your storm shields.

      Storm can and should have a DOT or similar spell to remain competitive. The "school identity" of Storm isn't defined by a lack of overtimes. It's an important tool to have, especially since lightning elf and death bat have been banned.
      "Fire can be quenched. Storms can dissipate. Myths can simply be forgotten. But Death... Death is constant. Death has existed long before you came to be and it will exist long after it takes you."

    10. #20
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      Re: Updated Insane Bolt Spell

      balance has chimera/hydra both brake 3 shields and while we are talking about DoTs almost everyone has a dot back when it was mostly Fire, ice, and death i can list more but thats not the point.

      The new insane bolt while it does fit storms Rng it feels lack luster sure with storms high damage it will still be hitting 1k+ but it was well you die or i die type of spell
      Wolf soulstalker 140 Alex nightshade 140 Valkoor Wild 140 Valkoor Wild ​135 Valkoor Myth 130

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