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    1. #21
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Lightbulb Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Cosmos View Post
      From my perspective, inserting ham-fisted racialization where is does not belong (such as this game) has tainted my world view in only negative ways.
      Hmm, you make good points about changing some of the older spells! However, I do think that KingsIsle should definitely do an audit of some gear like the Headdress in Wizard101 and the various other Native American inspired gear in Pirate, as these are blatant examples of cultural appropriation that should be removed. If the Washington "Redskins" can change their name and branding after all these years, Wiz can too!



      Quote Originally Posted by Cosmos View Post
      Maybe this is you, maybe it isn't: you seem a well-meaning sort who wants to do good and help people. This critical theory has brought many such people comfort knowing they were fighting for something greater in whatever small way they could. But for me this lens has only been a gateway to pain and low-self worth; it set forth a self-fulfilling prophecy that I still mentally battle with every day that told me I would never be "good enough" because of how I was born. No amount of representation has nor is going to fix that.
      Learning about colorblindness has helped me realize how I minimize people's race as a white person, though I still have a lot of work to do.
      I recently watched a documentary where a Native American woman recited a story she had heard about in which indigenous girls on a basketball team were oppressed because of their race (I'll have to leave it at "oppressed," the details are much too graphic for Central). The moderator of the discussion then pointed out that even though she hadn't lived through that experience, she paid a price for retelling it. I (Think) I understand where you're coming from, and wanted to thank you for sharing your side of things.



      Quote Originally Posted by Phenoixblizzard View Post
      To be honest, it's a game. I don't really think younger kids are going to care about diversity. Bringing real world issues into a game doesn't seem healthy for one's mental health anyway. It just seems as if it'll cause more stress than anything. It'd be like someone who lost a loved one to a disease hating the first arc because Malistare wanted to bring his wife back to life. Different situation, I know, but I guess it could be similar in a way?
      @Bailey Jade

      If kids are bombarded with white washed spells, TV shows, comic books, etc. we're going to accept "white" as what is "normal" and "right." You're right that young kids won't care or know the definition of diversity, but without it we will internalize "white" as "normal." Or in cases of the headdress hat, kids will internalize that as acceptable. I mean, take myself as an example- it's taken me 11 years to notice just how white all of these spells are, because that is what I have accepted as "normal."
      Making KingsIsle's games won't change much in the grand scheme of things because this internalized racism is a culmination of all sorts of media, but we gotta start somewhere, right?

      Of course, considering what Cosmos said it would cause more stress to go back and change spells that have existed for years or since launch day, so perhaps it is better to seek a promise from KingsIsle to do better in the future and to alter blatant cultural appropriations, like the headdress hat!




      @Oxnhorse

      I agree that KingsIsle is seemingly trying to blend all of the 7 schools into one, but how does that relate to this discussion..?





      @Dylan Windwalker

      Thank you for your comments! I'm glad that we can have a civil discussion about race and Wizard101. To tell the truth, I was worried that this thread would be closed shortly after I posted it because a similar thread was closed several years ago. Thank you to Central Staff for allowing this important conversation to take place!





      Quote Originally Posted by richardDkht View Post
      "RACE is a word for scientists, that was taken out of its box by the mass to further create differences. We are people, earthlings, human beings. "
      I wouldn't say that race is a "word for scientists"- as I learned in my BioAnth class Fall Quarter, race is a socially constructed concept that has no genetic basis. Scientists did, however, for a long time believe that race was scientifically "real," which led to persecution, racism, and justification for heinous crimes against people of color.
      But even though race isn't genetically "real," that doesn't mean the problems people face because of their race aren't.



      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    2. #22
      Bailey Jade's Avatar
        Bailey Jade is offline Promethean Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post


      @Bailey Jade

      If kids are bombarded with white washed spells, TV shows, comic books, etc. we're going to accept "white" as what is "normal" and "right." You're right that young kids won't care or know the definition of diversity, but without it we will internalize "white" as "normal." Or in cases of the headdress hat, kids will internalize that as acceptable. I mean, take myself as an example- it's taken me 11 years to notice just how white all of these spells are, because that is what I have accepted as "normal."
      Making KingsIsle's games won't change much in the grand scheme of things because this internalized racism is a culmination of all sorts of media, but we gotta start somewhere, right?



      The only way kids will learn about racism if we teach them about it. There is nothing on this game that shows it. Only because few things are "white", its being brought up. OMG, they could be purple with yellow poke a dot and that would be consider normal because its a game!

      Beside, don't you always argue to keep this kid friendly any how?

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    3. #23
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Arrow Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Bailey Jade View Post
      The only way kids will learn about racism if we teach them about it. There is nothing on this game that shows it. Only because few things are "white", its being brought up. OMG, they could be purple with yellow poke a dot and that would be consider normal because its a game! Beside, don't you always argue to keep this kid friendly any how?
      I was taught not to judge people based upon the color of their skin, but I still have many internalized biases. Growing up in a mostly white community with white washed games, shows, books, movies, etc. will do that to a person. I see white as "normal" and have little regard for what race people of color may be, which is harmful. How can I understand that people of color face injustice simply because of their skin color when I don't even acknowledge their race myself? That's why my IDI report (A survey that essentially measures somebodies inter-cultural competence) put me in a place of minimization last quarter.


      I'm all for making this game more kid friendly, that's why I want KingsIsle to remove their Native American themed gear and make new worlds inspired from other cultures in a respectful manner. Introducing diversity as what is normal and good to kids is a great way to get started, though this of course won't solve much in the grand scheme of things.


      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    4. #24
      Phenoixblizzard's Avatar
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Bailey Jade View Post
      The only way kids will learn about racism if we teach them about it. There is nothing on this game that shows it. Only because few things are "white", its being brought up. OMG, they could be purple with yellow poke a dot and that would be consider normal because its a game!

      Beside, don't you always argue to keep this kid friendly any how?
      Exactly! I literally had no idea what skin color had to do with anything was until the 8th grade when I became a victim of racism (and I'm white!). Don't ask me how, I still don't understand what I did wrong aside from see that their behavior and attitude towards us was horrible and decided not to interact with them. I just enjoyed the golden rule of treating other the way I wanted to be treated. The neighborhood I moved into was alright (until it went into a steady decline that rapidly went down hill when we moved out) and the school district could've been better I admit (I could've skipped 8th grade since I pretty much took those courses in my previous school district in their AP classes, but they wouldn't let me because of my age and they didn't want to admit that I passed the needed SOLs for that grade). I'm kinda wondering if a mod needs to look at this thread just in case things get ugly like the one thread about gambling.



      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      I'm all for making this game more kid friendly, that's why I want KingsIsle to remove their Native American themed gear and make new worlds inspired from other cultures in a respectful manner. Introducing diversity as what is normal and good to kids is a great way to get started, though this of course won't solve much in the grand scheme of things.
      Oh no, that's literally what happened in the RWBY fandom! Someone took offense to someone's Wendigo Grimm entry that won a contest to be in the show, called it cultural appropriation, and Rooster Teeth had it removed. That upset so many people because they made a Nuckelavee Grimm (origin in both Scottish and Norse mythology and looks similar to a centaur from Greek mythology) that was well received and so many people -Indians included- loved the Wendigo entry. The winner and the fandom were heartbroken because the winner even said they ensured that it wouldn't be offensive in anyway by studying what they could about the Wendigo. Dollightful on youtube was forced to remove her Wendigo doll (which was also extremely loved by many people including those of the Indian culture) because of this cultural appropriation stuff. Even she researched it! What's next?!

      I don't think that anything is being disrespected in the game. If this was an issue, then why wasn't it brought up years ago?
      Wizards vs Bosses


    5. #25
        richardDkht is offline Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      I wouldn't say that race is a "word for scientists"- as I learned in my BioAnth class Fall Quarter, race is a socially constructed concept that has no genetic basis. Scientists did, however, for a long time believe that race was scientifically "real," which led to persecution, racism, and justification for heinous crimes against people of color.
      But even though race isn't genetically "real," that doesn't mean the problems people face because of their race aren't.


      Science intended as knowledge, scientists intended as scholars: people that study in pure neutrality to understand things and need to classify in various ways everything that falls under their observation.
      And one of the ways science classifies things, is by selecting similiarities among individuals to split them into groups, and see if there is any common denominator; in this case physical similarities.
      You can have cat races, dog races, snake races and yes, human races. It's just a way to file stuff into documents to make them into working hypothesis and easier to read and study. Science never concluded that races supposed anything other than physical similarities.

      Science never persecute, discriminate, hate nor love. It's just knowledge.

      "Society" does not have the knowledge nor the ability to create such concepts. It only has the power to twist facts given by science to make them fit where they don't.
      Dumb people take science and, believing they understand it, distort it and give it wrong meanings, then own them and start doing dumb stuff using them as an excuse to justify their need of possession.
      Those ain't scientists, they are quakers.
      And if it wasn't for the color of skin, they'd find another way to still justify that some need to suffer and submit so that they themselves get what they want. In a far away past, when "race" was not yet a word, enslavement was filling that berth.

      Science needed a word to sort boring long lists; dumb folks (aka "the masses") took it out of where it belonged and made this mess.

      But accepting such a debate is already giving half reason to people that believe "race" is something meaningful.

      It isn't.

      It does not involve customs, habits, folklore, abilities, rights, or anything else but physical similarities.
      " I can solve any issues in the world, except those originated by human stupidity"
      ".. that leaves out A LOT.."

    6. #26
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Post Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by richardDkht View Post
      Science never persecute, discriminate, hate nor love. It's just knowledge. Dumb people take science and, believing they understand it, distort it and give it wrong meanings, then own them and start doing dumb stuff using them as an excuse to justify their need of possession.
      Pure science is neutral, but not so long ago people tried to use it to justify racist mistreatment of people of color. Their logic went something like this: 'If I prove that these people are less than human, that they're different from white people in some way- then through that disparity breeds division and through that division power for white people.'



      Quote Originally Posted by richardDkht View Post
      And one of the ways science classifies things, is by selecting similiarities among individuals to split them into groups, and see if there is any common denominator; in this case physical similarities. You can have cat races, dog races, snake races and yes, human races. It's just a way to file stuff into documents to make them into working hypothesis and easier to read and study. Science never concluded that races supposed anything other than physical similarities.
      There are meaningful genetic differences between a husky and a pug that constitutes separate classifications, there are not meaningful genetic differences between a Black person and a white person to justify the scientific separation of people based on race.



      Quote Originally Posted by richardDkht View Post
      But accepting such a debate is already giving half reason to people that believe "race" is something meaningful. It isn't. It does not involve customs, habits, folklore, abilities, rights, or anything else but physical similarities.
      Despite race having no scientific evidence to rectify it genetically, it still has great social significance beyond it being a tool used by oppressors. One's culture and race often go hand in hand, after all.



      Quote Originally Posted by Phenoixblizzard View Post
      I don't think that anything is being disrespected in the game. If this was an issue, then why wasn't it brought up years ago?
      The issue of the headdress and Native American themed bow wand was brought up several years ago, but the thread was closed. Plus, we shouldn't put the burden of addressing these problems on people of color- they already have enough to worry about!



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    7. #27
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      I can't tell if this is a parody or not.

      In any case, the spells mentioned in the OP are virtually all derived from Greco-Roman mythology, so them being "white" *shudder* is actually just an accurate portrayal of the culture from which they are inspired.

    8. #28
      pinky1644's Avatar
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      When one looks to complain about something they mostly will find it.

    9. #29
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Question Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      We can talk all day about this amongst ourselves, but for change to happen we need to ask Central's emissaries to KingsIsle, @Sparck and @Eric Stormbringer! My question is if there is motivation at KingsIsle to address the problems of cultural appropriation in both Wizard and Pirate101, and if so, when will we see change?


      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
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    10. #30
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      First off,
      I have read this whole thread and seen and understand all the different point of views everyone has.
      That being said, I've been playing this game since beta and I never viewed or seen this game being racist.

      This is a Game and its created in a matter to escape the real world.

      Magic Spells aren't and should never be identified as anything other than a magic spell in a game.
      Character Wizards give players the option to choose to play a Boy or a Girl, light skinned, tan, dark, ( they should offer different colors and tones such as Red- Blue-Green-Rainbow even a Ghost like appearance etc Now that would be Awesome!)

      Red hair,purple hair, green hair, white hair, blue hair you name it you got it etc
      ( because its a fantasy role playing game etc)

      giving plenty of diversity (Taking away the hassle of the Real life World)


      NPCS
      are animals to make it more whimsical and Kid Friendly.
      ( please dont forget what happens in the real world shouldnt effect the online gaming world, since this is a distraction from what we see and hear daily in real life)


      Could you imagine REAL LIFE matters in Online Gaming? what your asking for?
      (Covid-19 as a World) LoL
      and other areas I wont mention on this thread-
      Because WHY? Because this is a game and real life shouldnt be pulled into a game that was designed to escape reality of the daily life We ALL Face in the Real World.


      What KI Should Change - Update

      New Fashion,
      New Skin Tones as Mentioned Above^^^
      New Spells-
      New Pets-
      Combining W101 and P101
      Last edited by Meggs; 4-17-21 at 5:59:09 PM.

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