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    1. #31
      Phenoixblizzard's Avatar
        Phenoixblizzard is offline Adept Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Meggs View Post
      First off,
      I have read this whole thread and seen and understand all the different point of views everyone has.
      That being said, I've been playing this game since beta and I never viewed or seen this game being racist.

      This is a Game and its created in a matter to escape the real world.

      Magic Spells aren't and should never be identified as anything other than a magic spell in a game.
      Character Wizards give players the option to choose to play a Boy or a Girl, light skinned, tan, dark, ( they should offer different colors and tones such as Red- Blue-Green-Rainbow even a Ghost like appearance etc Now that would be Awesome!)

      Red hair,purple hair, green hair, white hair, blue hair you name it you got it etc
      ( because its a fantasy role playing game etc)

      giving plenty of diversity (Taking away the hassle of the Real life World)


      NPCS
      are animals to make it more whimsical and Kid Friendly.
      ( please dont forget what happens in the real world shouldnt effect the online gaming world, since this is a distraction from what we see and hear daily in real life)


      Could you imagine REAL LIFE matters in Online Gaming? what your asking for?
      (Covid-19 as a World) LoL
      and other areas I wont mention on this thread-
      Because WHY? Because this is a game and real life shouldnt be pulled into a game that was designed to escape reality of the daily life We ALL Face in the Real World.


      What KI Should Change - Update

      New Fashion,
      New Skin Tones as Mentioned Above^^^
      New Spells-
      New Pets-
      Combining W101 and P101
      Don't forget to add updating the hairstyles in the crown shop so that they have the same colors available to choose from as what we have at the start! I'm still waiting on that...
      Wizards vs Bosses


    2. #32
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Question Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Meggs View Post
      Because WHY? Because this is a game and real life shouldnt be pulled into a game that was designed to escape reality of the daily life We ALL Face in the Real World.
      So if you're against putting reality into these fantasy games, would you be supportive of removing culturally appropriative gear such as the headdress hat?

      The way I personally see it is that video games should be inclusive of everybody- people of color already face enough challenges outside of videogames, so the least we can do is to ensure these games are representative and respectful. But right now, in their current state, Wizard and Pirate101 most definitely are neither of those things.


      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    3. #33
      MeganFrostFlame's Avatar
        MeganFrostFlame is offline Journeyman Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Spells you listed like Triage, Immolate, Helping Hands, etc. were probably made just to have a unified look for utility spells. The other spells (excluding Scorching Scimatars) are all based on European myths and mythical creatures. Although more diversity is always great, I've always seen people going back and changing existing things to add diversity as performative. If you're going to add diversity and make a change, put in effort by creating and putting a spotlight on new material instead of lazily changing something that wasn't originally the wasn't the way it was. The fact that there are barely any humans compared to animal species (where a majority of cultures are referenced) in The Spiral can also make it somewhat difficult unless they add more humans somewhere or the human's homeworld in The Spiral in a future update to showcase more diversity. That being said, there's always room for more diversity in this game which I would like to see. Kingsisle definitely should add more diversity for wizard customization including skin color, hairstyles, and clothing and newer spells if human or human-like creatures (like Sirens or Fairies) were to be introduced instead of the usual animal/mythical creature.

      Cosmic Pyromancer | Ravenwood Alumnus | Arcanum Liason | PvP Veteran
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    4. #34
      Meggs's Avatar
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      So if you're against putting reality into these fantasy games, would you be supportive of removing culturally appropriative gear such as the headdress hat?

      The way I personally see it is that video games should be inclusive of everybody- people of color already face enough challenges outside of videogames, so the least we can do is to ensure these games are representative and respectful. But right now, in their current state, Wizard and Pirate101 most definitely are neither of those things.

      As a person with mix ethnicity I personally LOVE the headdress hat, my grandfather was Native American (Cherokee to be exact) before he passed away few years ago ( he also played wiz101 with the grandkids being so far away at the time) and He himself felt honored to have a culture usually forgotten about being somewhat represented in a video game

      As for me personally
      I don't see it as an insult having a headdress in game ( honestly I wish KI added more cultural head wear from around the world)
      Would be nice to see that as an option
      ( to me having head wear in a game is more about education)

      children of certain ages have no idea of what's happening in this world today about different hate topics- ( somethings are taught and told to children so they grow up to be a certain way)
      If you take away life issues such as ( racism, violence, war etc)
      You have the ability to educate the minds of children of all ages with a different outlook-
      in doing such players dont forget this is a game and that this game is for people of all race, age, locations and ethnicity to interact, get to know, to make new friends and travel a spiral to concur a game world as a team or solo.

      Plus its a great fundamental way of social interacting and educational purposes-
      not only bring people together with different backgrounds, but it also teaches kids of all ages that a person is not defined by the color of their skin or how they dress or where they come from etc, it teaches kids of all ages even adults you can never judge a person on how they look.
      But getting to know new people from around the world and having common interests
      If anything thats the main reason why many of us play online games, its to escape from real life drama but also to meet new people and have fun teaming up to face online game challenges- worlds, bosses- farming for gear and reagents , hatching and sharing pets or even to have a house party, to pvp and much more.
      Last edited by Meggs; 4-17-21 at 7:49:57 PM.

    5. #35
      Shadow Slayer's Avatar
        Shadow Slayer is offline Legendary Wizard
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Not everything is white still in the game so the spell changes don't really bother me..I mean they are just spells.


      "I hate people"

    6. #36
      Oxnhorse's Avatar
        Oxnhorse is offline Magus Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      Hmm, you make good points about changing some of the older spells! However, I do think that KingsIsle should definitely do an audit of some gear like the Headdress in Wizard101 and the various other Native American inspired gear in Pirate, as these are blatant examples of cultural appropriation that should be removed. If the Washington "Redskins" can change their name and branding after all these years, Wiz can too!

      Oxnhorse: Jared, I was following this instance with the Washington team and found out a rather interesting story, which will be loved by some and hated by others; hopefully you will enjoy it.

      Shortly after the Washington Redskins formed as a team, a local Indian tribe noticed the team had no official logo, emblem or face to the team, so a local tribe who were joyful knowing that a football team had used the term REDSKINS as their team name, offered to have on of his braves do a side mural of the Chief.

      When the mural was done, Chief Two Coins presented the Redskins with his picture as an OFFICIAL emblem of the team. The local team in turn presented an EXCLUSIVE SKY BOX, which the tribe used during visits to watch the game, and when they were absent it was roped off.

      When Chief Two Coins and his tribe came to watch, the announcer would start by saying THAT OUR TEAM LOGO WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT THE FACE OF CHIEF TWO COINS who has honored us by giving us a proper face as our team mascot. The tribe was treated like royalty, even though they did not seek it.

      Honestly, failing to understand how local tribes of football teams across America have been honored in team names is how people cause problems and divisions, which end up destroying unity.

      Learning about colorblindness has helped me realize how I minimize people's race as a white person, though I still have a lot of work to do.
      I recently watched a documentary where a Native American woman recited a story she had heard about in which indigenous girls on a basketball team were oppressed because of their race (I'll have to leave it at "oppressed," the details are much too graphic for Central). The moderator of the discussion then pointed out that even though she hadn't lived through that experience, she paid a price for retelling it. I (Think) I understand where you're coming from, and wanted to thank you for sharing your side of things.

      Oxnhorse: The golden rule still applies here: Treat others as you want to be treated.


      @Bailey Jade

      If kids are bombarded with white washed spells, TV shows, comic books, etc. we're going to accept "white" as what is "normal" and "right." You're right that young kids won't care or know the definition of diversity, but without it we will internalize "white" as "normal." Or in cases of the headdress hat, kids will internalize that as acceptable. I mean, take myself as an example- it's taken me 11 years to notice just how white all of these spells are, because that is what I have accepted as "normal."
      Making KingsIsle's games won't change much in the grand scheme of things because this internalized racism is a culmination of all sorts of media, but we gotta start somewhere, right?

      Of course, considering what Cosmos said it would cause more stress to go back and change spells that have existed for years or since launch day, so perhaps it is better to seek a promise from KingsIsle to do better in the future and to alter blatant cultural appropriations, like the headdress hat!

      Oxnhorse: It is sad how schools, media, Hollywood and sports venues have helped in intentionally causing divisions among youth to poison their minds at a young age.


      @Oxnhorse

      I agree that KingsIsle is seemingly trying to blend all of the 7 schools into one, but how does that relate to this discussion..?

      Oxnhorse: With the other thread that you and I are in about nerfing everything about spells, this white out of spells makes complete sense.

      KI staff is worried that other schools have an unfair advantage over Storm, when I have witnessed first-hand how many Storm players have made maximum damage dealing decks and have done nearly 200K damage against a full team of enemies and beyond.

      Damage, that Cody Soul Sword has yet to compare with.

      @Dylan Windwalker

      Thank you for your comments! I'm glad that we can have a civil discussion about race and Wizard101. To tell the truth, I was worried that this thread would be closed shortly after I posted it because a similar thread was closed several years ago. Thank you to Central Staff for allowing this important conversation to take place!



      I wouldn't say that race is a "word for scientists"- as I learned in my BioAnth class Fall Quarter, race is a socially constructed concept that has no genetic basis. Scientists did, however, for a long time believe that race was scientifically "real," which led to persecution, racism, and justification for heinous crimes against people of color.
      But even though race isn't genetically "real," that doesn't mean the problems people face because of their race aren't.


      We can all be civil, when each of us can contribute to a thread without getting bent out of shape; as well as respect each other without name calling that could further divide the rest.

      Oxnhorse

    7. #37
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Question Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Meggs View Post
      As a person with mix ethnicity I personally LOVE the headdress hat, my grandfather was Native American (Cherokee to be exact) before he passed away few years ago ( he also played wiz101 with the grandkids being so far away at the time) and He himself felt honored to have a culture usually forgotten about being somewhat represented in a video game
      Thank you for sharing! I'm glad that the headdress hat brings you joy. Even still, seeing it ingame makes me feel uneasy- I've been taught that as a white person who has zero ties to Native Americans, I should never appropriate their culture in the form of wearing things like headdresses. Do you think that simply retiring the hat would be the better option, or should it be left alone? Or maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong and instead should be focusing on ensuring a more diverse future for both games, rather than changing existing elements.


      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    8. #38
      Cosmos's Avatar
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Dylan Windwalker View Post
      Couldn't have said it better @Cosmos

      But also I appreciate that @JaredSpellFrost brought this thread up though because it brings like to conversations that are fundamental to the gaming community and let's players address their stance on a topic that may concern some players but not others, finally being able to talk about it in a format that doesn't hurt others feelings as it's very much staying a good discussion. Racism doesn't end until we talk about it (even if people follow egalitarian or "color-blind" views about identity)

      I feel that we should just enjoy the game for what it and appreciate that this game brings together people more than it divides
      I suppose that's fair. I may not agree, but all suggestions on how to improve this mess of a game deserve a glance. Lord knows KI often struggles to come up with those on their own.

      I apologize @JaredSpellFrost if I came across as abrasive or dismissive. I've scarcely been involved in conversations regarding this topic that didn't end with someone angrily spewing insults or "-ism" words at me. So many personal bridges burned... Sometimes it's hard not to get defensive.
      Come back alive. It'd be an awfully empty galaxy without you. - Garrus Vakarian // I also write my own stuff ~

    9. #39
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Red face Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Cosmos View Post
      I apologize @JaredSpellFrost if I came across as abrasive or dismissive. I've scarcely been involved in conversations regarding this topic that didn't end with someone angrily spewing insults or "-ism" words at me. So many personal bridges burned... Sometimes it's hard not to get defensive.
      You have nothing to apologize for! Please, give yourself some credit- not only are issues of racial justice very passionate topics (Which oftentimes justify/need abrasive messaging), you weren't rude at all. Just stating how you feel and your views on the matter is the exact opposite of a social blunder.


      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    10. #40
        richardDkht is offline Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      Pure science is neutral, but not so long ago people tried to use it to justify
      You are saying the same thing as I.




      There are meaningful genetic differences between a husky and a pug that constitutes separate classifications, there are not meaningful genetic differences between a Black person and a white person to justify the scientific separation of people based on race.
      You don't understand.

      To study a set there is a need to split its individuals into groups. No matter if the split is based on genetics, colors, age, height, hairness or whatever else. It's just an initial split that serves the purpose of the catalogue.

      After that, in some cases you will find that there is meaning in the split, and in other cases the split will prove invalid, and you will rebuild the set either to split it further or leave it whole.

      That is all that there is behind the "races" in the "human" set. The rest is overthinking. Hence the "word for scientists".


      Despite race having no scientific evidence to rectify it genetically, it still has great social significance beyond it being a tool used by oppressors. One's culture and race often go hand in hand, after all.
      If you accept this, then you are giving meaning to the "race" item, making the same mistake of the people you are criticizing. Instead you should talk about tribes, population, ethnic groups..

      If you consider "white" as a race, or "black" as a race, think about the differences between an american black and a somalian black, or a swedish white and an argentinian or australian white.
      The split makes no sense in terms of cultures.

      To make a last example:

      there are two children in a dark room. They are both afraid of dark.

      Someone gives them weapon telling them so that they can protect from the monsters if any come.

      One kid hear a noise and hit in that direction. The other hear the first and tries to hit himself. After a while, they are at each other's throat.

      This image shows the issues with xenophobia (fear of what is "foreign" and so not understandable) : your group is one of the kids, believing the "race" issue needs to be addressed. The other kid is the group of people believing "races" make people different. The darkess is the "race" itself.

      Neither group understand the "darkness" and tries to imagine it out in some way.
      Thus every little thing (the noises) is overinterpreted and creates a disproportional reaction (the hit).

      Each disproportional reaction creates a further disproportional reaction (second hit) and in the end there is war.

      Each group will say that the noise or the darkness are responsible for what happened.

      The truth is that the responsibility fall on the way the issue was addressed in the first place: instead of giving weapons, that is, rationalizing the darkness ("race") concept, someone should have explained them that into "darkness" there is nothing, so no need for weapons or to overthink stuff about it.

      This is a simple example of how an initial wrong axiom ("there could be monsters in the darkness") can go a long way in what looks like a logic argument, but in truth is all wrong.

      The only real solution is to drop it all.
      " I can solve any issues in the world, except those originated by human stupidity"
      ".. that leaves out A LOT.."

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