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    1. #11
      Dylan Windwalker's Avatar
        Dylan Windwalker is offline Legendary Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      If there's any problem with Kingsisle, I would think that racism is towards the bottom of their barrel of things they should be prioritizing a solution for in my opinion. It's not necessary that Kingsisle needs to actively contribute skin color differences into their game and I would be rather perplexed if Kingsisle were to incorporate skin color differences in order to prove a point of something I really don't think they are. To me, Kingsisle simply chose the white default of spells quite simply because they never really considered the race of whatever hand the spell is during the development process and quite simply never crossed their mind. Would Kingsisle be opposed to making a version of Regenerate or Immolate with different skin colors? Probably not. But honestly there's just so much other fixes the company should be spending their time fixing that changing the skin color would be a waste of their time, that could be spent better.

      I would certainly enjoy having more diversity from various human npcs in the future but I really don't think Kingsisle should make any stance whatsoever in the issue of race because that's just not a line that they would benefit from traversing. Then Kingsisle would have to be careful specifically avoiding biases and encounter matters that need not really need to be addressed in this game, essentially staying that it's best not to think about this aspect of the game and retain their "I don't really care either way" sort of neutral stance. It just so happened to be that way randomly or spontaneously. There's less problems without intervention in this area that there is. If Kingsisle did make the case of specifically creating "Asian" or "Black" skin colors, then the company would run into a problem where the public will recognize that everything before this update was considered racist, when honestly there was likely no answer for such things. It's a dish better left cold.

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    2. #12
      Robobot1747's Avatar
        Robobot1747 is offline Journeyman Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Oxnhorse View Post
      Actually, its not a racist comment I made, but a point on how you view things in life. Plus, it goes a long way in explaining why everything must be equal, by destroying individuality in the game.

      Games like W101 and P101 are FANTASY GAMES, not real life. The reason that is has drawn over 11M players all over the world, is because people seek TO ESCAPE reality.

      The shattered worlds that have their individual identities across the Spiral are fun takes on the nations of Earth set in a fantasy setting. And many of us like noting the distinctive references with animals representing people.

      In another thread that JaredSpellFrost and I are in, there are nearly 16 pages on why many of us think the nerfing of everything in W101 gameplay is a really stupid idea, and unless you have been a part of the thread, you might get the wrong impression about it.

      This white-out of spell cards is another instance if that knee-jerk nerfing I mentioned. It would be completely stupid in making all the schools the same, to keep 7 individual schools, so the white cards might be a transitioning into a single school so no one is left out.

      It may seem silly, but if KI does merge everyone into a single school, it would kill the game.

      And in the same vein, Central considers some words that I might use for fun and normal everyday life, as being curse words. I'm not a racist person, but I have proven others that have accused me of being racist, that they were the true racist, and it was truly funny when they realized the situation they were in, and I did it with a smile which really irritated people.

      Oxnhorse
      All right, so it's a bad take on the spell audits. What on earth makes you think that KI wants to get rid of schools? And what does that have to do with representation of minorities? Just because we're giving some schools important tools that they don't have currently does not mean they're "all the same." Not having a good bubble for Death isn't part of its school identity, it's a failing in balance that is being corrected. And the blades are the exact opposite, now damage per pip matters more, so hitter schools will deal better damage now.

      Also, I totally nailed the "people will complain either way," didn't I Cosmos? I don't really see it as a "we need this" more of a "why the heckhound not" thing.
      "Fire can be quenched. Storms can dissipate. Myths can simply be forgotten. But Death... Death is constant. Death has existed long before you came to be and it will exist long after it takes you."

    3. #13
      ss2775's Avatar
        ss2775 is offline Initiate Wizard
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      as someone who is a POC i really dont care about this...it wouldnt make anything feel anymore 'inclusive' if old spells randomly changed their skin colour.

      Spells they make in the future would be nice to see a bit of variety, but old spells changing their skin colour would feel weird and try hard from my perspective and just performative. Id rather they just keep things as they are...this isnt a huge issue and isnt something that a POC player such as myself even thinks about in this game.



    4. #14
      Cosmos's Avatar
        Cosmos is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      Switching around the skin color of a few spells won't solve much in the grand scheme of things, but as the saying goes, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." And it should be fairly easy to make these spells more representative, so why not?
      ...
      That mindset actually has a name- colorblindness. Colorblindness is a system of beliefs in which a person's race is ignored (Or rather, minimized) in an attempt to appear as somebody who isn't racist. However, this is problematic because it essentially ignores a core part of many people's identities, and is detrimental for addressing problems people of color face. After all, how can we solve the many, multifaceted problems of racism if we never acknowledge people's race?
      Even though our skin color is only skin deep, the obstacles people of color are still facing because of their race run much deeper.
      Colorblindness is one thing I definitely have struggled and am still grappling with in my life, I'll admit. Confronting my privilege to not notice just how white Wizard101 is uncomfortable, but America didn't travel to the moon because it was easy.
      This is getting pretty involved, but trust me friend, I know what some people call it and their objections with it. And I'm sorry, but calling "colorblindness" "problematic" is just something I don't philosophically or politically agree with. I like to call myself egalitarian and just leave all my views at that.

      From my perspective, inserting ham-fisted racialization where is does not belong (such as this game) has tainted my world view in only negative ways.

      When I was a young, nerdy, lower class, brown (because that apparently matters to some people other than my physician) boy playing this game, I had no concept of the fact that 1% of the characters in-game—or even my life as a whole—looked like me. None. As I grew older, I had friends who have given me the same arguments that you presented. They told me that it gave them a new perspective on how to achieve true equality and fairness.

      For me, it has only added a lens of otherism. It made me question whether they were my friends because of what I was rather than who I was.

      "Wait, are there any people that look like me in that advertisement? What about over there? Does that mean I'm not good enough?"

      And what about if someone did look like me?

      "Did they earn it, or were they chosen because of the superficial? Does that mean I can't earn it by my own merits?"

      Maybe this is you, maybe it isn't: you seem a well-meaning sort who wants to do good and help people. This critical theory has brought many such people comfort knowing they were fighting for something greater in whatever small way they could. But for me this lens has only been a gateway to pain and low-self worth; it set forth a self-fulfilling prophecy that I still mentally battle with every day that told me I would never be "good enough" because of how I was born. No amount of representation has nor is going to fix that.

      Some like to claim race is one of the hardest conversations to have. I disagree. I think it is one of the easiest conversations to have because it is so basic—so primal. It is easy to compartmentalize people based on how they look. And suggesting that doing this more instead of less is the solution to anything is... not something I agree with to put it mildly. Just treat people as people.

      People spend way too much time trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to theories of justice when the Golden Rule honestly sums up nearly all situations quite nicely. Occam's Razor at it's finest I say.




      But this is getting too far into philosophyland so let me pivot back to the game. Again, I don't see how changing skin tones of spells does anything for anyone.

      Should KI make more "diverse" skin-toned characters in the future? Sure. Why not, right?

      Should KI change established elements of the game to try and pander? No. Why? It's both insulting and pointless.


      And heck yeah I would be up for exploring worlds with different inspirations. Not because I think Wizard101 is this horrible Eurocentric game that needs to repent, but I just want cool worlds. I like the sound of an Indian or Maori inspired world myself. That would be siiiick. As far at "cultural appropriation" is concerned... I literally don't care. Treat people as people. Give them the respect an individual deserves and it will be fine.
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    5. #15
        richardDkht is online now Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Cosmos View Post
      Oh goody. One of these threads again...
      took the words out of my mouth.

      I'm finding myself strangely in sync with Cosmos here.

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      That mindset actually has a name- colorblindness. Colorblindness is a system of beliefs in which a person's race is ignored (Or rather, minimized) in an attempt to appear as somebody who isn't racist. However, this is problematic because it essentially ignores a core part of many people's identities, and is detrimental for addressing problems people of color face. After all, how can we solve the many, multifaceted problems of racism if we never acknowledge people's race?

      With good words and the wrong axioms we can build incredibly steady fake theories.

      I will answer this with two quotes:

      "RACE is a word for scientists, that was taken out of its box by the mass to further create differences. We are people, earthlings, human beings. "

      "I knew of two child friends, one was white the other was black. But they didn't know that until they got adult. "

      Please do keep this stuff out of the game.
      Last edited by richardDkht; 4-17-21 at 7:05:40 AM.
      " I can solve any issues in the world, except those originated by human stupidity"
      ".. that leaves out A LOT.."

    6. #16
      Dylan Windwalker's Avatar
        Dylan Windwalker is offline Legendary Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Couldn't have said it better @Cosmos

      But also I appreciate that @JaredSpellFrost brought this thread up though because it brings like to conversations that are fundamental to the gaming community and let's players address their stance on a topic that may concern some players but not others, finally being able to talk about it in a format that doesn't hurt others feelings as it's very much staying a good discussion. Racism doesn't end until we talk about it (even if people follow egalitarian or "color-blind" views about identity)

      I feel that we should just enjoy the game for what it and appreciate that this game brings together people more than it divides

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    7. #17
      Bailey Jade's Avatar
        Bailey Jade is offline Promethean Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Well, the one thing I love about the games like this is, you get to meet players personality first rather then what they look like. Many of them come from all over and I have chatted with them on other platforms.

      If you want to add more diversity moving forward, go right ahead, but to change things in the past, I think its ridiculous. The lower worlds, I have seen them as fun and light hearted for KIDS enjoyment, I am sure it was not to cause any racial issue based on NPC's out there.

      Honestly, this is a game and I honestly do not care in what things look like. Its for my enjoyment and escape from all the issues out there in the real world. I really rather not see political views, or discussions like this on here, there is enough of that on the TV and Radio. I had only responded to this thread because the OP asked me to check it out and we have had many discussions about this topic where our views are different.

      I just think that people read into things too much. Just saying.

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    8. #18
      Oxnhorse's Avatar
        Oxnhorse is offline Adept Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Robobot1747 View Post
      All right, so it's a bad take on the spell audits. What on earth makes you think that KI wants to get rid of schools? And what does that have to do with representation of minorities? Just because we're giving some schools important tools that they don't have currently does not mean they're "all the same." Not having a good bubble for Death isn't part of its school identity, it's a failing in balance that is being corrected. And the blades are the exact opposite, now damage per pip matters more, so hitter schools will deal better damage now.

      Also, I totally nailed the "people will complain either way," didn't I Cosmos? I don't really see it as a "we need this" more of a "why the heckhound not" thing.
      I don't have any solid proof, but between all the spell audits to make everything a level playing field and the changing the color schemes of some cards, it isn't too much of a leap.

      But honestly regarding the audits, the 7 schools each have its own UNIQUE form of gameplay, which many players that don't want to figure out how to make that school work for them would rather look at other players who have figured out the cards, and CRY UNFAIR to KI and celebrate about using KI to destroy part of the game.

      On top of that, there are 2 cards that are in Wizard101 that bear relevance here; Efreet and King Artorius.

      Efreet is a Fire school card that originally dealt damage and left a -90 charm on a wizard that most people used a school wand to destroy their setup. I have seen it happen many times and have advised others in game and battle to play with an off-school wand for such an instance as this.

      Another thing about Efreet, is that if you go to the Bazaar, and look through the other schools, there are 6 other copies made for the other schools, especially when Efreet IS MEANT TO BE EXCLUSIVELY For the Fire school, not all 7.

      As for King Artorius, all the schools were given the card in the game as a reward for saving the King, so we all had a part of him, and/or use his assistance in battle. All 7 cards have differing affects that help the player personally.

      Oxnhorse

    9. #19
      Oxnhorse's Avatar
        Oxnhorse is offline Adept Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      Quote Originally Posted by Dylan Windwalker View Post
      If there's any problem with Kingsisle, I would think that racism is towards the bottom of their barrel of things they should be prioritizing a solution for in my opinion. It's not necessary that Kingsisle needs to actively contribute skin color differences into their game and I would be rather perplexed if Kingsisle were to incorporate skin color differences in order to prove a point of something I really don't think they are. To me, Kingsisle simply chose the white default of spells quite simply because they never really considered the race of whatever hand the spell is during the development process and quite simply never crossed their mind. Would Kingsisle be opposed to making a version of Regenerate or Immolate with different skin colors? Probably not. But honestly there's just so much other fixes the company should be spending their time fixing that changing the skin color would be a waste of their time, that could be spent better.

      I would certainly enjoy having more diversity from various human npcs in the future but I really don't think Kingsisle should make any stance whatsoever in the issue of race because that's just not a line that they would benefit from traversing. Then Kingsisle would have to be careful specifically avoiding biases and encounter matters that need not really need to be addressed in this game, essentially staying that it's best not to think about this aspect of the game and retain their "I don't really care either way" sort of neutral stance. It just so happened to be that way randomly or spontaneously. There's less problems without intervention in this area that there is. If Kingsisle did make the case of specifically creating "Asian" or "Black" skin colors, then the company would run into a problem where the public will recognize that everything before this update was considered racist, when honestly there was likely no answer for such things. It's a dish better left cold.
      As @Bailey Jade has mentioned, people play W101/P101 to escape the real world, mostly to find a calm relaxing oasis of peace and alone time.

      And maybe at times in this thread, I haven't chosen the right words that some need to be sugar-coated all the time, but when I notice patterns among the business community (of which KI and Gamigo) are part of, and one of those is THE NEED TO MAKE EVERYTHING EQUAL.

      It also explains why KI is always revising and nerfing the game 12 years after it first came out. Instead of being satisfied with creating and maintaining a top-notch game, the people responsible for continuing the superb quality are continually looking back instead of forward.

      And I have stated that if KI is doing this as part of avoiding the accusation (of being called a racist), it is a bad sign for this company, because even if the accusations are false, the reoccurring threat does more damage than the first.

      And as I said to another person in this thread, Jared Spell Frost and I are in another thread that has nearly 16 pages of comments about the unnecessary nerfing of blades, bubbles and other cards. Why? Because Ice, Life and Death are accused of HAVING AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE WITH +40 blades during PVP.

      People that have chosen those 3 schools didn't choose those schools based on blades, but the spells contained within.

      Oxnhorse
      Last edited by Oxnhorse; 4-17-21 at 10:20:32 PM.

    10. #20
      Phenoixblizzard's Avatar
        Phenoixblizzard is offline Adept Wizard

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      Re: Why Is Everything White..?

      To be honest, it's a game. I don't really think younger kids are going to care about diversity. Bringing real world issues into a game doesn't seem healthy for one's mental health anyway. It just seems as if it'll cause more stress than anything. It'd be like someone who lost a loved one to a disease hating the first arc because Malistare wanted to bring his wife back to life. Different situation, I know, but I guess it could be similar in a way?
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