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  • Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
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    Thread: Golems for all!


    1. #31
      Oxnhorse's Avatar
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      Re: Golems for all!

      Thank you for the response, Richard.

      I for one, advise others from time to time to carry three decks with a slim amount of cards and how to x-out cards they do not use, plus at least keeping 2 off-school wand hits. Instead of carrying one deck and switching out cards, I carry 2 of the highest level for my school and buy a L10 universal deck in the Shopping District for Monstorology and switch this deck as needed with the animus required.

      I also advise on secondary school selections among Fire, Life, Ice, Death and Balance; as well as the sun enchants from Celestia to Arcanum, letting them know that they need to replace them every few levels for survivabilty.

      When the talk of Solar Surge came out, I and several others were hoping KI would not destroy the Astral schools when it was revealed by Ratbeard pre-Karamelle that they were breaking the game, and replacing it with Solar Surge.

      Having Snake, Elf, Shield and Quench from Fire may seem like a waste, but they will be needed in Zafaria, Avalon and Azteca; and having them can help in the long run.

      Oxnhorse

    2. #32
      KieranCaster's Avatar
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      Re: Golems for all!

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      Just how a universal stat cap disproportionately hurts certain schools, giving everybody the same Golem spell doesn't equalize the equation. Storm, Fire, and Life are never meant to have such powerful ward utility, and giving them such spells unlocks an unfair advantage.
      Think about it like this; Storm focuses on offense while Ice centralizes on defense. The Golem spell will count as just another defensive spell for Ice with added damage, but for Storm it's huge- imagine facing a Diviner in combat rightfully expecting a glass cannon only to be met with a glass cannon that can effectively shield itself!


      You wouldn't give every school a heal like Satyr or a spell as beefy as Storm Lord, since it would eliminate key weaknesses and school identity.

      EDIT: It's also like giving White an extra Bishop and Black another Knight in an open game and equalish of chess. Sure, the value of these pieces is the same (Thee points each), but the engines evaluation will always give the advantage to White, since Bishops are more valuable in open games.

      Well said; however, here is the flaw.

      A defensive school - high resist and block will usually prevail against an offensive school. There is a tipping point where resist is so high, it really doesn't matter how much damage the opposing school has.

      The best way to illustrate this is to take it the extreme back to the days before pierce.

      With 100% resist against Storm, in a world of no pierce, Storm can have 500% damage boost; however, the net damage remains zero against 100% resistance.

      Lower the resistance to 90% against Storm, and in a world of no Pierce, Storm can have 500% damage boost to a 1,470 damage Owl, and still eek out 735 damage. Higher and higher resist increases the chances of prevailing. .

      Yes, there needs to be a cap, because damage can never, ever get high enough to overcome massive resist.

      I would suggest Ice has already stolen from other schools. They hit as hard as anyone and has lost their identity a long time ago. Perhaps this is another patch by Ratbeard to "fix" the offensive tempo Ice has. If Ice now has damage characteristic almost on par with Myth, Storm and Fire, perhaps they are giving everyone else defensive characteristics in an attempt to close the gap with Ice.

      This pendulum swinging to bring schools back to their identity is missing the mark; however, it's the path that KI appears to be on.

      Just my thoughts.

      One additional comment: The chess analogy is misleading. Chess provides the opponents with exactly the same pieces to start. (Wizard 101 does not require battlers to use the same exact spells.) It's no longer chess in that scenario. Additional pieces can be had, but this is only if you push a pawn to the other end of the board and change it to something else.
      Last edited by KieranCaster; 4-11-21 at 6:37:22 PM. Reason: One additional Comment

    3. #33
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Lightbulb Re: Golems for all!

      Quote Originally Posted by KieranCaster View Post
      A defensive school - high resist and block will usually prevail against an offensive school. There is a tipping point where resist is so high, it really doesn't matter how much damage the opposing school has.
      That may be true, but how do the Golem spells tie into that problem? I would argue that the solution to the inequity between Resist and Damage is to set customized limits for each school that allow stat chasing to occur, rather than giving everybody unthematic utility spells.



      Quote Originally Posted by KieranCaster View Post
      One additional comment: The chess analogy is misleading. Chess provides the opponents with exactly the same pieces to start. (Wizard 101 does not require battlers to use the same exact spells.) It's no longer chess in that scenario. Additional pieces can be had, but this is only if you push a pawn to the other end of the board and change it to something else.
      "It's also like giving White an extra Bishop and Black another Knight in an open game and equalish of chess."
      An open game implies that the match has reached the middle game, and that the board has been opened up. Bishops benefit more in wide open boards, since they can cover more squares, whereas in a closed game Knights have the advantage because they can jump over pieces.
      Each piece's face value may only be 3 Points, but you have to also consider their activity, the type of game they're playing in, among other, more specific factors. Basically, you can have a game where the materiel is completely equal but one side is dominating. Do you see why I'm making that comparison to giving Storm a defensive spell now?

      Spoiler
      Also the game doesn't start off "equal," according to the engine white has a .55 Point advantage because they move first


      Last edited by JaredSpellFrost; 4-11-21 at 8:04:05 PM.

      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    4. #34
      Oxnhorse's Avatar
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      Re: Golems for all!

      Quote Originally Posted by KieranCaster View Post
      Well said; however, here is the flaw.

      A defensive school - high resist and block will usually prevail against an offensive school. There is a tipping point where resist is so high, it really doesn't matter how much damage the opposing school has.

      The best way to illustrate this is to take it the extreme back to the days before pierce.

      With 100% resist against Storm, in a world of no pierce, Storm can have 500% damage boost; however, the net damage remains zero against 100% resistance.

      Lower the resistance to 90% against Storm, and in a world of no Pierce, Storm can have 500% damage boost to a 1,470 damage Owl, and still eek out 735 damage. Higher and higher resist increases the chances of prevailing. .

      Yes, there needs to be a cap, because damage can never, ever get high enough to overcome massive resist.

      I would suggest Ice has already stolen from other schools. They hit as hard as anyone and has lost their identity a long time ago. Perhaps this is another patch by Ratbeard to "fix" the offensive tempo Ice has. If Ice now has damage characteristic almost on par with Myth, Storm and Fire, perhaps they are giving everyone else defensive characteristics in an attempt to close the gap with Ice.

      This pendulum swinging to bring schools back to their identity is missing the mark; however, it's the path that KI appears to be on.

      Just my thoughts.

      One additional comment: The chess analogy is misleading. Chess provides the opponents with exactly the same pieces to start. (Wizard 101 does not require battlers to use the same exact spells.) It's no longer chess in that scenario. Additional pieces can be had, but this is only if you push a pawn to the other end of the board and change it to something else.
      Um, yeah but I don't believe that Ice stole anything from others ESPECIALLY WHEN, Ice has been a powerhouse since the introduction of Wizard101 by the person known as Ambrose in the game, who was responsible for its creation.

      I've been playing this game since June 2009 when the Ice Wyvern had a DoT spell attached to it and WAS REMOVED BECAUSE PEOPLE COMPLAINED IT GAVE EVERYONE ELSE A DISADVANTAGE.

      Life has the exclusive on HEALING. Death has an exclusive on HEALTH STEALING. Myth has an exclusive on MINIONS. Balance is the best SUPPORT school. While Fire and Storm were given higher amounts of damage since they were originally known as the weaker schools of Ravenwood.

      And yes Ice was created as a POWERHOUSE, because it was created to act as A TANK during battle, WHICH ALLOWS OTHER SCHOOLS to build up their hits while the enemies were distracted, while Life and/or Death anchored the battle circle to keep the team alive.

      This insanity that Ice must always be nerfed, is so laughable to scorn, that any and every accusation I see must be met with the reminder ITS HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME that determines your success.

      Ice, Death and Life were all given +40 blades; yet KI has constantly destroyed the Ice school in the futile attempt to make it fairer for the other 6 schools to play the game, because they listened to everyone that complained about Ice.

      It seems like the only time no one will complain about Ice is when the game is no longer available to play by MEMBERSHIP people, until then Ice will be continually nerfed while Life and Death get a pass.

      Oxnhorse

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