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    1. #71
      SeptenaryRavens's Avatar
        SeptenaryRavens is offline Magus Wizard
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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      Graphs matter because without them, we will just keep going in circles. Graphs will show that this statement is untrue. Even a storm with 170% damage and higher base damage will get outpaced by an ice by 7 blades. I'm using the 4 pip shadow hits with a +300 enchant.



      So theoretically, if a boss has 30k+ health (particularly at 45k+), and both schools go full offense by blading every single round for 7+ turns, the ice will be able to beat the boss first. This is a fundamental problem, because it's much easier for an ice to get 7+ blades and survive 7+ rounds. In these scenarios, there is no advantage or niche for storm, because a full offense ice just outpaced a full offense storm.
      Thanks for putting this into perspective for me. I never thought about blade stacking, since we're so used to the 2-3 round kills at max level. An example with the old system:

      Ice Spell 1000 base damage
      Ice Wizard 100% damage outgoing (2)
      5 Ice blades 40% (1.4 x 1.4 x 1.4 x 1.4 x 1.4 = 5.38)
      2 Ice blades 50% (1.5 x 1.5 = 2.25)

      1000 x 2 x (5.38) x (2.25) = 24,210

      Storm Spell 1200 base damage
      Storm Wizard 150% damage outgoing (2.5)
      5 Storm blades 30% (1.3 x 1.3 x 1.3 x 1.3 x 1.3 = 3.71)
      2 Storm blades 40% (1.4 x 1.4 = 1.96)

      1200 x 2.5 x (3.71) x (1.96) = 21,815

      Ice beats storm by over 2,000 damage, using 7 blades. The newer balanced system allows the schools to focus on what they're about. Ice was originally the school with a health and resist edge over other schools, and now that line will be more drawn in the sand. I can now say I'm in full support of this change.




    2. #72
        sparkfiredust is offline Apprentice Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Feint stacking is more important than blade stacking in PVE. 3 blades 4 feints frost giant kills every 34k health boss?! Doesn't make a difference if iceblade stays 40%.


      If ice gets 50% more hp than storm, why should ice be the better dps? Have you ever seen a game where the tank, is also the tank-shredder?

      If ice is the best blade-stacker due to their tanky blade-stacking style, should ice be the hitter in team dungeons instead of fire and storm? Since ice should be tankier, and have the same damage output.

    3. #73
      Oxnhorse's Avatar
        Oxnhorse is offline Magus Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stormbringer View Post
      I'm genuinely curious about how this logic extends. In your view, should a storm via an equal amount of shields be able to surpass Ice in defense? Since you believe it is fair for Ice to receive a 10% advantage on blades to compensate for their weaker offense- should storm receive a 10% advantage on shields to compensate for their lower defense?
      You do realize that Death and Life, as well as Ice, have the +40 Blades? If you are gonna take away +10 of Ice, I sure hope that you intend going after Life and Death.

      Plus, while you are dropping 10 points from Ice being the boogeyman of Wizard101, do you intend on dropping 10 points from every school or just Ice?

      None of the players ever advised KI how to create Wizard101 before it came online. The game came out and we all began to start playing. The idea that Ice is the overpowered school that needs continual nerfing is absurd.

      I have watched Storm players with 6 blades do over 125K damage, while playing with my Ice wizard, and honestly, I don't see Storm being nerfed for being overpowered.

      I love seeing the amounts of damage any school can do, and honestly, I really don't understand why doing awesome amounts of damage is cause for alarm that has anyone complaining about to KI staff about being overpowered.

      Oxnhorse

    4. #74
      masterofspelss's Avatar
        masterofspelss is offline Legendary Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      Nah, I didn't say nor mean that. I deliberately detached PvP from my explanations.
      Should we give ice a 100,000 damage, 2 pip hit to make ice more playable? After all, the mobs won't care!

      If your entire stance is "AI doesn't care about overpowered schools, therefore, it's PvP's fault," then this is beyond rational discussion. When one school is better than another even in the PvE context, then it should be balanced, simply for gaming integrity.

      You literally admitted that, and I quote: "A mob doesn't care if you're overpowered or not." Which is true. And you're absolutely correct, if we gave Ice (or any other school) a 2 pip spell that dealt 100k damage, would AI care? No, which you stated.

      So what would the downside be? Who would complain about a 2 pip spell that does 100k damage, Morganthe? Medulla? The only complaints would be from the schools that don't get said spell. But why? AI (like you and I stated) don't care about stats or spells because they're AI, any complaint is from the players themselves. So obviously, the players complain because a spell that does 100k damage for two pips is insane. Let me say that again. The players are the ones who say the spell is too strong.

      Okay, how does this translate to blades? Because... AI doesn't care if it's 35% or 40%. Wait, really? Wow, it's not like it's been said multiple times before! So.. why change it then? Literally nobody ever said "Hey you know what? Why do some schools get a 40% blade? We should nerf it and raise others." Because... oh look, base damage comes into play again! Shocking! Nobody cared that some schools get 40% blades because said schools weren't getting spells that do super high damage. I mean come on, unless you're a kid, if you go into a dungeon and you're Ice/Life (or other support school), why would you even think of being the hitter? Maybe there isn't a clear hitter so you choose to be, but wait! That's right! If you're a support school, you need to blade stack in order to do the same amount of damage. It's almost as if... they're not hitter schools...

      So if AI doesn't care about blades, and the players don't care about blades, then again.. why change it? Because the one group that would benifit from reducing certain school blades is... the PvP community. And we know KI will die on the hill that PvP should be the main focus of the game, so here we are with Ice/Life/Death getting their blades reduced, and Storm getting theirs boosted.

      Don't deny it, because if this was really for balancing purposes so Storm can be the only hitter (which ironically KI isn't doing any favors for by giving more damage to Fire from gear), they'd just increase Storm's blade only, and keep the others the same.
      Last edited by masterofspelss; 4-9-21 at 9:13:52 PM.


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    5. #75
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is online now Grandmaster Wizard

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      Exclamation Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by masterofspelss View Post
      So if AI doesn't care about blades, and the players don't care about blades, then again.. why change it? Because the one group that would benifit from reducing certain school blades is... the PvP community. And we know KI will die on the hill that PvP should be the main focus of the game, so here we are with Ice/Life/Death getting their blades reduced, and Storm getting theirs boosted.
      Don't deny it, because if this was really for balancing purposes so Storm can be the only hitter (which ironically KI isn't doing any favors for by giving more damage to Fire from gear), they'd just increase Storm's blade only, and keep the others the same.
      Exactly. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against PvP-centric updates- Raven knows we need a new and improved 5th Age! It is only when such updates come at the cost of the vastly larger PvE community that eyebrows are rightfully raised.


      Take all of the new spells Wizards can learn in this update. Who in their right mind will use Rat Magician, Red Ghost, Thieving Dragon, or Brown Spider in PvE? Nobody, that's who! And as for the universal stat cap that is meant to "balance" everything out, where exactly has that equality been asked for the most? The Arena!
      These are all additions that mark this update as being custom made for the minority of loud Duelists, and that's a fact. Alone in PvP, the standardization of everything might even be beneficial, but when it crosses that line into PvE, well.. we got problems. With how wildly different these two metas are, there will be no single solution to solve everything on both sides, so I wish that KingsIsle would stop looking for one!

      Last edited by JaredSpellFrost; 4-10-21 at 12:04:35 AM.

      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    6. #76
      Oxnhorse's Avatar
        Oxnhorse is offline Magus Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      @Eric Stormbringer, @Ratbeard, @Sparck;

      Would you please review your own Development Diaries and look to see if all the tweaking and altering of player gameplay THAT AFFECTED PVP, could have also had the unintended side effect of altering regular gaming?

      Jared, myself and others that respond with alerts to KI staff do so because there really is no other way to respond to you.

      And by the way, we are not here to demonize you or your ways of providing splendid material; we are here responding because APART FROM SOME PEOPLE THAT WOULD RATHER COMPLAIN INSTEAD OF IMPROVING THEIR GAMEPLAY, they are seeking to get revenge by using KI brass to destroy the game on purpose and deny any wrongdoing.

      Personally, when I could not figure out what I was doing wrong in game, I would ask others that seemed to have a better grasp on getting their cards when they needed them. Same with gear, took me around 2 to 3 years to understand what was best ON MY OWN.

      And I have had others explain to me what gear I should get, during battle and I would take their advice.

      It is a common mistake most make in game, about deck setup, but I have come across several people that are too lazy to do crafting that carry the false idea that running in Darkmoor with Waterworks gear will ensure them that the complete set of Mali gear will drop.

      Nothing is guaranteed in rare drops, most of us know that, and that everything is random. But I have noticed that whenever Wiz101 is nerfed beyond the addition of new worlds, it is because of complaints from people barely out of Arc 1 that have not figured out their gameplay strategy beyond filling every deck to complete capacity and not knowing why their cards don't materialize when needed.

      Oxnhorse

    7. #77
      Fredwardo's Avatar
        Fredwardo is offline Master Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Really hope the MC aura nerf is just for PvP. Been questing with a MC virulence, MC amplify and MC Punishment on my new set of wizards and its been super fun.
      @Eric Stormbringer after hearing your voice on the new PvP roundtable which I might add was an absolute banger of a vid. Can I tag ya and ask for this request to passed along or at least information if its affecting PvE as well? Ratbeard mentioned not wanting to touch heal pets due to Deckathalon but I really do enjoy aura pets.

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    8. #78
      Eric Stormbringer's Avatar
        Eric Stormbringer is offline Wizard101 US Faculty

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Fredwardo View Post
      Really hope the MC aura nerf is just for PvP. Been questing with a MC virulence, MC amplify and MC Punishment on my new set of wizards and its been super fun.
      @Eric Stormbringer after hearing your voice on the new PvP roundtable which I might add was an absolute banger of a vid. Can I tag ya and ask for this request to passed along or at least information if its affecting PvE as well? Ratbeard mentioned not wanting to touch heal pets due to Deckathalon but I really do enjoy aura pets.
      I'll link you to the Dev Diary for the complete discussion: Test Realm Dev Diary

      Below is the most applicable section of the Diary to your particular question
      Name:  Ratbeard on Maycasts.jpg
Views: 104
Size:  89.0 KB

      TLDR translation
      -May cast auras, healing spells and manipulations were covered in this pass of the audit
      -Many maycasts have separate PvP and PvE cast rates with the PvE cast rates being untouched(usually means a higher cast rate)
      -Trigger logic was cleaned up- for some maycasts the previous logic was bugged and caused them to trigger at an accelerated rate. What this means is that any maycast with this corrected trigger logic will cast less.
      -Some maycasts have been audited to only respond to a owner casted trigger- this means that passing into a maycast is no longer possible for these particular maycasts.
      -Certain maycasts will still respond to triggers that do not include owner casted spells, however as a consequence those maycast rates were lowered.
      -May cast aura length has been standardized at 4 rounds.
      -Other maycasts, or ones that were already changed, may be audited or adjusted/readjusted in the future as necessary.
      Last edited by Eric Stormbringer; 4-10-21 at 2:09:53 AM.

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    9. #79
      Fredwardo's Avatar
        Fredwardo is offline Master Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stormbringer View Post
      TLDR translation
      -May cast auras, healing spells and manipulations were covered in this pass of the audit
      -Many maycasts have separate PvP and PvE cast rates with the PvE cast rates being untouched(usually means a higher cast rate)
      -Trigger logic was cleaned up- for some maycasts the previous logic was bugged and caused them to trigger at an accelerated rate. What this means is that any maycast with this corrected trigger logic will cast less.
      -Some maycasts have been audited to only respond to a owner casted trigger- this means that passing into a maycast is no longer possible for these particular maycasts.
      -Certain maycasts will still respond to triggers that do not include owner casted spells, however as a consequence those maycast rates were lowered.
      -May cast aura length has been standardized at 4 rounds.
      -Other maycasts, or ones that were already changed, may be audited or adjusted/readjusted in the future as necessary.
      Oh sick, didnt even know they posted a dev diary!

      Appreciate the response homie, glad to see thats not being touched!

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    10. #80
      ChoGath's Avatar
        ChoGath is offline Grandmaster Wizard
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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stormbringer View Post
      I'm genuinely curious about how this logic extends. In your view, should a storm via an equal amount of shields be able to surpass Ice in defense? Since you believe it is fair for Ice to receive a 10% advantage on blades to compensate for their weaker offense- should storm receive a 10% advantage on shields to compensate for their lower defense?
      One of the things that is lost in the discussion about "how many blades" is that Storm wizards play with half the health points of an ice wizard. Winning with a Storm wizard means being hyper-efficient with your health, healing, shielding, and de-buffing, while hording your PiP strength until you have a kill combination. The high speed / high damage meta of PvP in the L60+ range penalizes all of the low health schools even more, because it's not possible to effectively heal and retain enough pips to have a meaningful OHKO threat.

      Damage cannot be so grotesquely high (through pierce and buffs) that it makes all shielding and healing pointless. Damage cannot be so low that it allows "Jade turtles" to stall infinitely.

      It would be helpful for everyone if there was a School -vs- School chart, for each of the key PvP levels, that highlights the health points, natural resistance levels, and natural damage boosts of the schools being paired. Looking at each of the pairing cells, there should be a realistic winning strategy for both of the schools matched - a realistic combination of attack, utilities, and defensive spells that can be played. Playing with a half-health Storm is extremely difficult, if every other school has the same (or more) damage ability. Every other school gets to "take" 2-3 hits, whereas Storm only can take one hit.

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