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  • Page 12 of 16 FirstFirst ... 28910111213141516 LastLast
    Results 111 to 120 of 151
    1. #111
      medlnic15's Avatar
        medlnic15 is offline Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      @masterofspelss So you're saying that the nerf won't have much affect on your experience? People are a lot more worried about this change than they need to be, you're not going to notice that it's any different when questing.
      140 S | 130 F | 75 L | 75 I | 75 D | 15 B
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    2. #112
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Arrow Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Strong View Post
      Bro what thats impossible lol you're losing me with your point. I feel like you have personal feelings towards ki and the only changes you want to see is how jared wants it
      My point is that KingsIsle has shown a pattern of ignoring our feedback, especially during Test Realm, and so I can't trust them to not go ahead with these poorly designed Blade/Trap/Bubble nerfs and the universal stat caps.



      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      Iron sultan vs. scorching scimitars.1240*1.3=1612 1176*1.35=15881240*1.3*1.4=2256 1176*1.35*1.45=2302
      Where are you getting these numbers??

      With 300 damage enchants, this is what I calculated:

      Iron Sultan:
      1,248 * 30% Blade = 375
      1,248 + 375 = 1,623

      1,248 * 35% Blade = 437
      1,248 + 437 = 1,685


      Scorching Scimitars:
      1,176 * 35% Blade = 412
      1,176 + 412 = 1,588

      Climaclysm (For comparison)
      1,032 * 40% Blade = 413
      1,032 + 413 = 1,445

      1,032 * 35% Blade = 362
      1,032 + 362 = 1,394

      Even with the weaker Blade, Storm wins again. One can presume the same will hold true when we take other factors such as Damage, Critical, Pierce, and other buffs into account as well.




      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      Orthrus and storm lord were in S tier, since 690-700 base damage.
      Note that despite dealing the same damage, Storm Lord is much more powerful because it stuns all enemies.



      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      If we're sticking to the differentiated blades, storm will always have less damage than fire, but better aoe spells. We could say storm is better for clearing mobs instantly, while fire is the better boss killer. But that'd imply ice life and death with their superior blades are better boss killers than fire.
      I just showed that Storm deals more burst damage than Fire, even with different Blades. And I would argue that yes, Ice, Death, and Life are "better" boss killers than Fire, but only because they have greater survivability. It will still take Thaumaturges, Necromancers, and Theurgists forever to kill when compared to Storm and Fire, but as my previous calculations have shown Ice Wizards shouldn't be surpassing Diviners in damage until at least the tenth buff.
      I suppose it boils down to which strategy you prefer- hit hard and fast with Fire and Storm at the risk of survivability, or take it slow with Ice/Life/Death for surer hits. Neither approach is necessarily superior to one another, but it's about your personal preference really.



      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      I guess through these examples we can see how it can be problematic that myth becomes the best aoe school (at least in arc 2) even though that's not how the game was designed to be. Mythblade being stronger than balanceblade defines myth as the higher damage school. And mythblade being stronger than stormblade equalizes their damage, when myth's identity is not the aoe school.
      Yeah, Orthrus is a bit OP in my opinion. I of course understand why the Devs wanted every school to have a solid 7 Pip AoE, though I do miss the classic double hit Orthrus!

      Last edited by JaredSpellFrost; 4-12-21 at 2:19:17 PM.

      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    3. #113
      masterofspelss's Avatar
        masterofspelss is offline Legendary Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by medlnic15 View Post
      @masterofspelss So you're saying that the nerf won't have much affect on your experience? People are a lot more worried about this change than they need to be, you're not going to notice that it's any different when questing.
      I was stating the fact that it still takes the same amount of turns/cards regardless of the percentage of blade, but Ice gets reduced damage, and Storm gets boosted. So, then... what's the point of changing blades, because the only outcome is lowering Ice/Life/Death damage, and increasing Storm damage, which... to the surprise of nobody, impacts PvP way more than it does PvP. So thanks for proving my point that this was a PvP focused alter.


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    4. #114
        sparkfiredust is offline Apprentice Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      I just showed that Storm deals more burst damage than Fire, even with different Blades. And I would argue that yes, Ice, Death, and Life are "better" boss killers than Fire, but only because they have greater survivability. It will still take Thaumaturges, Necromancers, and Theurgists forever to kill when compared to Storm and Fire, but as my previous calculations have shown Ice Wizards shouldn't be surpassing Diviners in damage until at least the tenth buff.
      I suppose it boils down to which strategy you prefer- hit hard and fast with Fire and Storm at the risk of survivability, or take it slow with Ice/Life/Death for surer hits. Neither approach is necessarily superior to one another, but it's about your personal preference really.



      Iron sultan dpp 135, scorching scimitars dpp 125
      Iron sultan enchanted dpp 178, scimitars 168
      178*1.3*1.4=324 dpp
      168*1.35*1.45=329 dpp

      My calculations were imperfect though. Looking back at storm and fire spells, storm's actual dpp is 140, while fire's is 112. If I were to use these numbers, then storm definitely does more burst.

      Traditionally higher dpp schools have had worse blades. Storm, fire myth, death life ice. Problem is, balance is worse dpp than myth but has the worst blade. The higher dpp schools are supposed to be more damage, burst or dps. If balance had a 40% blade like death and life and ice, then power nova would be stronger than orthrus, which is not intended.

      high dpp schools have more burst, yet lower dpp schools are able to circumvent that with 2 blades.

      Orthrus vs. forest lord
      (700+225)*1.35*1.45 = 1810
      (650+225)*1.4*1.5 = 1837.5
      (690+225)*1.3*1.4 = 1665 (bonus storm lord)

      Life does more burst than myth, but that's not fair, since storm fire and myth are the burst schools, yes? This is garg enchant (lvl 58) with enchanted armament sharpen blade. Higher dpp schools are supposed to deal more burst (this is what you said). Yet life, the worst dpp school, deals more burst than myth. And waterworks gear further favors life damage.

      You might say, well just nerf lifeblade. The problem is, ice and life have the same dpp. If lifeblade lets life out-burst myth, then with the right spells ice will also outburst myth.

      If I put it like this, myth wizards must be fuming now. Starting out as a new player, it's fairly obvious that life and ice are the lowest damage schools (imp and frost beetle having worst dpp). And yet myth is actually lower burst and lower dps than 2nd arc life.


      I don't think it's fair to call life death and ice the dps schools, when their identities have always been healer, solo, and tank. Updating blades helps balance out PVE and PVP.


      Ice gets legion shield, tower shield, frost armor, ice armor, abominable weaver. They are obviously the shield school out of the 7 schools. They are not the blade school, cause if they were they'd be getting iceblade earlier than lvl 38.

      Also saying fire is burst and not dps is a fallacy in itself. Fire school has the most dot spells. Dot spells deal damage over 3 turns. There's a reason fire dragon is one of the weaker burst spells, because damage over time is not burst. It's dps.
      Last edited by sparkfiredust; 4-12-21 at 6:59:09 PM.

    5. #115
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Arrow Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      My calculations were imperfect though. Looking back at storm and fire spells, storm's actual dpp is 140, while fire's is 112. If I were to use these numbers, then storm definitely does more burst.
      Damage Per Pip can be pretty inconsistent, so we should only focus on the base damage of spells.



      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      Traditionally higher dpp schools have had worse blades. Storm, fire myth, death life ice. Problem is, balance is worse dpp than myth but has the worst blade. The higher dpp schools are supposed to be more damage, burst or dps. If balance had a 40% blade like death and life and ice, then power nova would be stronger than orthrus, which is not intended.
      Balance has the weakest Blades out of every school because they're universal. Plus, Balance Wizards can apply their Elemental/Spirit buffs to their tri-hits for extra damage! In addition, Sorcerers receive the best utility ingame, which could explain a lower damage output.



      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      high dpp schools have more burst, yet lower dpp schools are able to circumvent that with 2 blades.
      I wouldn't say that weaker schools can outpace higher DPP schools with just 2 Blades, but this is the driving concept behind the current system of buffs. An Ice Wizard should be able to outdamage an unboosted​ Diviner given enough time is committed to bladestacking!



      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      Life does more burst than myth, but that's not fair, since storm fire and myth are the burst schools, yes? This is garg enchant (lvl 58) with enchanted armament sharpen blade. Higher dpp schools are supposed to deal more burst (this is what you said). Yet life, the worst dpp school, deals more burst than myth. And waterworks gear further favors life damage.
      ..Since when was Life's base damage greater than that of Myth's?

      With 300 damage enchants and no regard for stats and other buffs;

      Snake Charmer:
      1,356 * 35% Blade = 475
      1,356 + 475 = 1,831

      Lamassu:
      1,032 * 40% Blade = 413
      1,032 + 413 = 1,445

      1,032 * 35% Blade = 362
      1,032 + 362 = 1,394


      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      I don't think it's fair to call life death and ice the dps schools, when their identities have always been healer, solo, and tank. Updating blades helps balance out PVE and PVP.
      Ice gets legion shield, tower shield, frost armor, ice armor, abominable weaver. They are obviously the shield school out of the 7 schools. They are not the blade school, cause if they were they'd be getting iceblade earlier than lvl 38.
      Also saying fire is burst and not dps is a fallacy in itself. Fire school has the most dot spells. Dot spells deal damage over 3 turns. There's a reason fire dragon is one of the weaker burst spells, because damage over time is not burst. It's dps.
      As I have thoroughly explored in previous posts, Ice's ability to tank hits lends itself to being more effective in drawn out combat. Nerfing our buffs will only serve to make battles longer and less fun. The same idea can be applied to Life and Death as well, since they rank 2nd and 3rd in overall "tankiness."
      The 3 weakest schools need the best buffs because they deal the last amount of damage!


      Fire is certainly the DoT school, though their burst damage can be pretty beefy.

      Last edited by JaredSpellFrost; 4-12-21 at 8:08:54 PM.

      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    6. #116
      SeptenaryRavens's Avatar
        SeptenaryRavens is offline Magus Wizard
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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by masterofspelss View Post
      Okay, so? Lowering mob/boss HP doesn't correlate with outgoing damage. Malistaire suddenly doesn't get a boost to incoming Ice damage. Let's do the math real quick.
      Literally the only difference, is that ice's final damage is reduced and Storm's isbuffed. So you saying Ice will have an easier time with the updated blades, doesn't work out.
      I think you've slightly misconstrued what I said. Malistaire pre-2020 had 10,000 health, and ice had their 40% blade. Malistaire post-2020 had 8,000 health and ice had their 40% blade. Present day Malistaire will still have 8,000 health, and ice will have a 35% blade. KI originally lowered health on all mobs and bosses in the game to counteract all current and future rebalancing to spells, whether that be from spells rebalanced in 2020 or spells rebalanced beyond that.

      Would you have prefered KI keep all mobs and bosses at pre-2020 levels (ie. Malistaire @ 10,000 health) and the blade rebalance? I'd much rather have my ice wizard go against the 8,000 health Malistaire with 35% blades over a 10,000 health Malistaire with 35% blades.




    7. #117
        sparkfiredust is offline Apprentice Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      I wouldn't say that weaker schools can outpace higher DPP schools with just 2 Blades, but this is the driving concept behind the current system of buffs. An Ice Wizard should be able to outdamage an unboosted​ Diviner given enough time is committed to bladestacking!

      ..Since when was Life's base damage greater than that of Myth's?

      With 300 damage enchants and no regard for stats and other buffs;
      Snake Charmer:
      1,356 * 35% Blade = 475
      1,356 + 475 = 1,831
      Lamassu:
      1,032 * 40% Blade = 413
      1,032 + 413 = 1,445

      1,032 * 35% Blade = 362
      1,032 + 362 = 1,394

      As I have thoroughly explored in previous posts, Ice's ability to tank hits lends itself to being more effective in drawn out combat. Nerfing our buffs will only serve to make battles longer and less fun. The same idea can be applied to Life and Death as well, since they rank 2nd and 3rd in overall "tankiness."
      The 3 weakest schools need the best buffs because they deal the last amount of damage!
      Fire is certainly the DoT school, though their burst damage can be pretty beefy.
      I proved that the weakest dpp school can outdamage the 3rd highest dpp school with 2 blades.

      I intentionally avoided the 4 pip shadow spells because after checking the numbers, the dpp of those spells is not the same as other spells.

      Snake charmer = 840 base, Lamassu = 732 base

      I found out that the 11 pip scion spells are balanced around the school's dpp applied to a 10 pip spell. So storm scion with 140 dpp deals 1400 dmg. Fire's is 1120. Myth's is 1010. So these and other spells like 6-7 pip spells can be used to show the dpp of a school.


      If questing bosses take too long, I recommend these: feint, sharpened feint, amulet of the feint, any pet with feint. You don't need sharpened feint or feint if you get tc feints, but why not

      Turn 1: Sharpened Blade, Turn 2: Blade, Turn 3,4,5 use 3 feints. Turn 6 Enchanted frost giant 735.

      735*1.7*1.7*1.45*1.35*1.75*1.7*1.7= 21,029

      You're killing every boss in 6 turns, and you capped out 95% crit with waterworks and some gear upgrades along the way. I believe if your aoe crits the minion, it's guaranteed to crit the boss as well, so you have a "100%" crit chance, and the chance the boss blocks is probably smaller than 4%.

      So 4% of the time you click the quit button and restart the boss fight, so each fight takes 0.24 turns extra. So each boss fight is just 6.24 turns if you do it like that, as ice.

    8. #118
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Lightbulb Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      I found out that the 11 pip scion spells are balanced around the school's dpp applied to a 10 pip spell. So storm scion with 140 dpp deals 1400 dmg. Fire's is 1120. Myth's is 1010. So these and other spells like 6-7 pip spells can be used to show the dpp of a school.
      Here's why DPP is difficult to calculate: nearly every top tier spell has gimmicks, utility, or something else that sets it apart from just dealing raw damage. There is of course nothing wrong with these extra effects, but it makes your calculations unreliable since the cost of utility is just so vague.
      That's why I'm using the 4 Pip Shadow spells in all of my examples. Although they are a split damage AoE, these spells deal raw damage and can be used as a solid baseline for our equations.



      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      I proved that the weakest dpp school can outdamage the 3rd highest dpp school with 2 blades.
      Snake Charmer:
      1,356 Base (Enchanted)

      1,356 * 35% Blade = 4751,356 + 475 = 1,831

      1,356 * 35% Blade * 35% Blade = 1,116
      1356 + 1,116 = 2,472


      Climaclysm:
      1,032 * 40% Blade = 4131,032 + 413 = 1,445

      1,032 * 40% Blade * 40% Blade = 991
      1,032 + 991 = 2,023

      Wrong again, I'm afraid.



      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      I intentionally avoided the 4 pip shadow spells because after checking the numbers, the dpp of those spells is not the same as other spells.
      That's because they deal flat damage with their only utility being a split AoE spell. Most other top tier spells will have lower DPP because of their extra effects.



      Quote Originally Posted by sparkfiredust View Post
      If questing bosses take too long, I recommend these: feint, sharpened feint, amulet of the feint, any pet with feint. You don't need sharpened feint or feint if you get tc feints, but why notTurn 1: Sharpened Blade, Turn 2: Blade, Turn 3,4,5 use 3 feints. Turn 6 Enchanted frost giant 735. 735*1.7*1.7*1.45*1.35*1.75*1.7*1.7= 21,029You're killing every boss in 6 turns, and you capped out 95% crit with waterworks and some gear upgrades along the way. I believe if your aoe crits the minion, it's guaranteed to crit the boss as well, so you have a "100%" crit chance, and the chance the boss blocks is probably smaller than 4%.
      As @masterofspelss has pointed out, you're only thinking about Wizards who have already completed well over half the game. These unwarranted nerfs will inevitably disproportionately harm Ice/Life/Death Wizards at lower levels, which really isn't great branding for the class as a whole!
      Players have historically warned newbies to avoid playing as Ice, Life, and Death, due to their low damage and lack of available AoEs, and should these nerfs go through these schools will become even less viable/popular.

      Last edited by JaredSpellFrost; 4-13-21 at 12:49:56 AM.

      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    9. #119
      Jesse Strong's Avatar
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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Okay so at first i didnt care about bubbles being 35, i didnt care about storm getting their blade buff, i didnt care about fire having most of their useful tcs pvp ban(meanwhile storm only suffering the lost of beetle), i didnt care about fire getting a trash spell and storm getting the best spell out of all the schools but now storm getting disarm cost 0 pips as well???? I already saw how dangerous its.... I dont wanna feel like this is a storm update instead of all schools but it starting to feel like it... Out all the schools, fire is getting hurt badly

    10. #120
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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      Here's why DPP is difficult to calculate: nearly every top tier spell has gimmicks, utility, or something else that sets it apart from just dealing raw damage. There is of course nothing wrong with these extra effects, but it makes your calculations unreliable since the cost of utility is just so vague.
      That's why I'm using the 4 Pip Shadow spells in all of my examples. Although they are a split damage AoE, these spells deal raw damage and can be used as a solid baseline for our equations.





      Snake Charmer:
      1,356 Base (Enchanted)

      1,356 * 35% Blade = 4751,356 + 475 = 1,831

      1,356 * 35% Blade * 35% Blade = 1,116
      1356 + 1,116 = 2,472


      Climaclysm:
      1,032 * 40% Blade = 4131,032 + 413 = 1,445

      1,032 * 40% Blade * 40% Blade = 991
      1,032 + 991 = 2,023

      Wrong again, I'm afraid.
      Minor correction, but you're using pre-nerf Snake Charmer. The Wiki states that it needs a new image, and the current version of the spell has a base of 840 damage. This means that with two 35% blades, it does 2,078 damage, which is still stronger than a double-bladed Climaclysm but it's awfully close. By the third blade, Climaclysm pulls ahead (2,832 vs. 2,805) and Myth will have to rely on having somewhere in the ballpark of 20-40% extra damage to still be a better hitter than Ice.

      Another thing is that by exclusively comparing the Mirage spells, we all forget that schools have other options that they tend to use more often. Ice has the strongest AoE in Snowball Barrage, which has a stronger base damage than Myth's strongest AoE if cast with at least 8 pips. I think this matters somewhat. Orthrus is a strong spell and all, but Ice gets something leagues better in Polaris.
      Last edited by Torpzun26; 4-13-21 at 1:35:15 AM.

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