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    Results 31 to 40 of 151
    1. #31
      Willowdreamer's Avatar
        Willowdreamer is offline W101C Team Leader

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Coming off the idea that many of us long-term players have deeply ingrained ideas as to how each school was intended to play -- I just wanted to add how confusing it was to go into a Team Up recently battle on my Life wizard at the Aberrant Paradox. I expected to play healer on the team.

      Everyone ran into battle with no discussion, just a "hi" "hello" "sup" kind of thing. First turn, I was going to cast a Spirit Blade on him, the Death wizard said "Don't blade me" - he then explained he was to be Support doing heals and blading. His Rebirth and Pigsie were just as good as mine, so I don't know if he realized he rendered half my deck irrelevant.

      The Storm said he only packed 3 hits after he used his second one. So I felt like I need to find some hits from my side deck in order to contribute to this battle in some way, and the Balance wizard ended up as our second hitter rather than the support player I pictured him being.

      This battle isn't necessarily indicative of a typical Team Up, but to me it illustrates how the game has become a population of "lone wolf" wizards. The game is no longer teaching us how to play together with our fellow wizards as a team, so it's no wonder that players struggle to find a good team for world-end cheating bosses at the Team Up Kiosk, and how many of us avoid those cheating bosses like the plague.

      Watchtower Hall crafted 7/21/10 -- Guides: Crafting Stations, here -- Crafted Grizzleheim Housing Items here -- Mirkholm Keep Ore/Diamonds here -- Cave of Solitude Black Lotus here

    2. #32
        Orzee is offline Apprentice Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Patrick FairyStalker did an excellent job explaining it. Not to mentioned life, ice, and death have the health and means to keep themselves alive longer in battle. Storm needs to hit faster because it lacks the defensive means to blade-stack forever.

      As of right now (very subject to change), item cards still have the original percentages. That means a stormblade item card still does 35% and a lifeblade item card does 45%. If this is intended, it may help keep that gap relatively competitive.

      Anyway, the math provided is just on blades too. In the complex world of actuality, a life/ice/death is more inclined to take the 'risk' of spells like Berserk/Frenzy or Feint, which provide meaningfully large buffs at the cost of more vulnerability. While these spells are certainly popular with storm wizards too, storm takes a much higher risk.

      Remember, changes like this also help spell diversity. Blade-stacking is very common and definitely needs addressed, it's too repetitive.

      My feedback would be to buff item/tc traps to 35% (tcs are at 30% which just isn't competitive with 45% blade tcs). As KI prioritizes faster spells, there is little downside to waiting taking another round to blade as a tankier school. Not to mention that with this damage and critical limit, tankier schools have room to grow offensively to "catch up" to storm and fire. That means enemy health will likely be more approachable to all schools, at least going forward.

      I encourage people in this thread to re-quest through mid-to-late game after the last 20% enemy health nerf and critical/block buff (using any school but balance... poor balance). You might hit the occasional exception, but I think you'll fly through it with a decent setup. I had to abandon my ice after Azteca because it was just a breeze. I crit way too much and could easily tank the attacks. It didn't give me the diversity I was hoping having played through it with 4 other schools.

      I saw this mentioned somewhere, but KI should consider the level in which you get these spells too. Ice blade comes at level 38. That's pretty late compared to other schools. I'm sure there are other spells like converts (*cough balance) or traps that could would make playing these schools a little faster and easier early on.

      This standardization does feel weird, but I overall think this particular change is less impactful than you think. Remember, they're supposed to audit gear sometime in the future (I'm hoping Summer update, but their auditing is going a lot slower than I would've thought). I'm sure the damage gap between schools is going to close a bit, among other large changes.
      Last edited by Orzee; 4-8-21 at 11:00:21 AM.

    3. #33
      Patrick FairyStalker's Avatar
        Patrick FairyStalker is offline Master Wizard
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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by masterofspelss View Post
      Because like I said before, an AI will not care if a person has a 40% blade or a 35% blade, so... tell me again how this is for the overall game and not just for PvP. Again, we already stated Life/Death/Ice need to blade stack to do equal damage to a school like Storm and Fire, so donít use that topic in your answer.
      I'm unsure of how to address blade changes if I can't discuss blade-stacking. Like I said previously, I couldn't care less if everyone got a 35% or a 40% blade. The point is they are the same. This is "balancing things" because storm should be rewarded for surviving and blade-stacking.

      Mass blade stacking to that level (5+ blades) is seldom used in PvP, especially for storm. I intentionally left out PvP in my analysis entirely. In fact, I have no idea how this balances PvP (I would love to know how). I do know that ice/life/death are the easiest schools to quest and solo. Light years ahead of storm, especially for newer players.

      A mob doesn't care if you're overpowered or not. If KI gave one school a 100,000 base damage hit for 2 pips, the mobs wouldn't care, but players would. Should the solution be, then, to give all schools a 2 pip ~10,000 damage hit? Of course not. The KI devs care about school balancing and they are thinking on the margin (blade-stacking is an essential part of it). Nerfs are a side effect of balancing. Not every update will/should be a buff.

      PS. I know Central discussions tend to turn argumentative, but I'm hoping we can treat this as a sharing of ideas rather than a debate. I'm not here to win an argument, I'm an engineer who likes numbers
      Last edited by Patrick FairyStalker; 4-8-21 at 12:26:13 PM.

    4. #34
      Robobot1747's Avatar
        Robobot1747 is offline Journeyman Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Willowdreamer View Post
      Coming off the idea that many of us long-term players have deeply ingrained ideas as to how each school was intended to play -- I just wanted to add how confusing it was to go into a Team Up recently battle on my Life wizard at the Aberrant Paradox. I expected to play healer on the team.

      Everyone ran into battle with no discussion, just a "hi" "hello" "sup" kind of thing. First turn, I was going to cast a Spirit Blade on him, the Death wizard said "Don't blade me" - he then explained he was to be Support doing heals and blading. His Rebirth and Pigsie were just as good as mine, so I don't know if he realized he rendered half my deck irrelevant.

      The Storm said he only packed 3 hits after he used his second one. So I felt like I need to find some hits from my side deck in order to contribute to this battle in some way, and the Balance wizard ended up as our second hitter rather than the support player I pictured him being.

      This battle isn't necessarily indicative of a typical Team Up, but to me it illustrates how the game has become a population of "lone wolf" wizards. The game is no longer teaching us how to play together with our fellow wizards as a team, so it's no wonder that players struggle to find a good team for world-end cheating bosses at the Team Up Kiosk, and how many of us avoid those cheating bosses like the plague.

      Honestly the Abberant Paradox fight is just a really bad example. You're supposed to have multiple not as heavily bladed hitters because of the way the waves work. I would say that that fight promotes "lone wolves" by design.
      "Fire can be quenched. Storms can dissipate. Myths can simply be forgotten. But Death... Death is constant. Death has existed long before you came to be and it will exist long after it takes you."

    5. #35
      ChoGath's Avatar
        ChoGath is online now Grandmaster Wizard
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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      ...
      So this is what I mean by long term advantages. As bosses get tougher (in the old system), ice gets better to the point where storm isn't even viable anymore.
      I recall in my farming days, I used lots of stacked Feint / traps rather than blades. This is all towards the "alpha strike" strategy favored by the PvE folks.

    6. #36
      Jesse Strong's Avatar
        Jesse Strong is online now Prodigious

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      I'm unsure of how to address blade changes if I can't discuss blade-stacking. Like I said previously, I couldn't care less if everyone got a 35% or a 40% blade. The point is they are the same. This is "balancing things" because storm should be rewarded for surviving and blade-stacking.

      Mass blade stacking to that level (5+ blades) is seldom used in PvP, especially for storm. I intentionally left out PvP in my analysis entirely. In fact, I have no idea how this balances PvP (I would love to know how). I do know that ice/life/death are the easiest schools to quest and solo. Light years ahead of storm, especially for newer players.

      A mob doesn't care if you're overpowered or not. If KI gave one school a 100,000 base damage hit for 2 pips, the mobs wouldn't care, but players would. Should the solution be, then, to give all schools a 2 pip ~10,000 damage hit? Of course not. The KI devs care about school balancing and they are thinking on the margin (blade-stacking is an essential part of it). Nerfs are a side effect of balancing. Not every update will/should be a buff.

      PS. I know Central discussions tend to turn argumentative, but I'm hoping we can treat this as a sharing of ideas rather than a debate. I'm not here to win an argument, I'm an engineer who likes numbers
      I been doing a lot of matches since i came back and to answer your question: this balance pvp in a huge way, ice/life/death were blades stacking like crazy and on top of those 50% blades their damage was over 100 so their blades were really op and ki explained this with the test realm notes. Not saying they wouldnt blade stack anymore with this change but this takes away the huge advantage those schools had with their 50% blades.

    7. #37
      Torpzun26's Avatar
        Torpzun26 is online now Journeyman Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Interestingly, from what has been observed in Test Realm PVP so far, Life and Death have actually gotten a lot better despite their blades getting weaker. Storm also rose to the top while Ice has been slain and its body tossed into a volcano.

      Of course this has only been with a few days of testing and people scrambling to figure out new strategies so this doesn't really mean too much, but it does look good for a lot of the schools that have been in the lowest tiers for years and years.

    8. #38
      Jesse Strong's Avatar
        Jesse Strong is online now Prodigious

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Torpzun26 View Post
      Interestingly, from what has been observed in Test Realm PVP so far, Life and Death have actually gotten a lot better despite their blades getting weaker. Storm also rose to the top while Ice has been slain and its body tossed into a volcano.

      Of course this has only been with a few days of testing and people scrambling to figure out new strategies so this doesn't really mean too much, but it does look good for a lot of the schools that have been in the lowest tiers for years and years.
      For sure, those new spells and their damage bubble is giving them a chance to climb the ladder in pvp finally. I dont mind the challenge more schools getting better, more fun

    9. #39
      masterofspelss's Avatar
        masterofspelss is offline Legendary Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      I'm unsure of how to address blade changes if I can't discuss blade-stacking. Like I said previously, I couldn't care less if everyone got a 35% or a 40% blade. The point is they are the same. This is "balancing things" because storm should be rewarded for surviving and blade-stacking.
      That's the entire point though. Storm doesn't need blade stacking to deal insane damage.
      Mass blade stacking to that level (5+ blades) is seldom used in PvP, especially for storm. I intentionally left out PvP in my analysis entirely. In fact, I have no idea how this balances PvP (I would love to know how). I do know that ice/life/death are the easiest schools to quest and solo. Light years ahead of storm, especially for newer players.
      Storm doesn't need to blade stack in PvP. Most strategies center around being a glass canon (last I checked the meta, which to be fair, was a while ago, so I'm not 100% up-to-date on how Storm plays)
      A mob doesn't care if you're overpowered or not. If KI gave one school a 100,000 base damage hit for 2 pips, the mobs wouldn't care, but players would. Should the solution be, then, to give all schools a 2 pip ~10,000 damage hit? Of course not. The KI devs care about school balancing and they are thinking on the margin (blade-stacking is an essential part of it). Nerfs are a side effect of balancing. Not every update will/should be a buff.
      So then you agree. Reducing Life/Death/Ice's blades to 35% was purely for PvP...
      PS. I know Central discussions tend to turn argumentative, but I'm hoping we can treat this as a sharing of ideas rather than a debate. I'm not here to win an argument, I'm an engineer who likes numbers

      Not trying to argue. I quit playing when they first changed spells along with the pet update. That's why I'm so confused as to why they decided to change things again (well, I know why. PvP).
      Comments in bold. I do want to add, that like I stated, I quit the game a while ago. I'm just checking out the new update because of the AoE animations. So the whole blade thing doesn't actually affect me, which is also kinda why it seems so dumb. Like, as someone who doesn't play anymore, this decision is just... well actually kinda on par with KI's decisions the past few years, so I shouldn't be acting surprised lol


      "I'm the Doctor"

    10. #40
      Oxnhorse's Avatar
        Oxnhorse is offline Magus Wizard

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      Re: Test Realm is open! "Spring 2021 Update"

      Quote Originally Posted by ChoGath View Post
      I recall in my farming days, I used lots of stacked Feint / traps rather than blades. This is all towards the "alpha strike" strategy favored by the PvE folks.
      In all this talk of blades stacking, traps/feints and what have you, lets not forget that the Enchanted Armament has a built in 3 Sharpened Blades (if you max train it) that can allow any wizard to stack 2 of the same percentage of damage as well as your tri blades.

      As for the Arberrent Paradox fight in Karamelle, there are many instances (like everyone joining together or penalized with 8K+ damage in one hit kills), where the team needs the lone wolf hitters, cause everyone hopes for the Uber gear drop, but the lucky few are able to get it.

      And with it being the conclusion of the world, HITTING THEM WITH EVERYTHING WE BRING TO THE FIGHT is justified, but Willowdreamer is right about too many of the players nowadays being lone wolf or go it alone people.

      While the younger crowds want to do it alone, there is wisdom in gathering in groups, because sometimes the older players share tips for better gameplay during the fights (and others have easier setups for getting hits/heals./buffs when desired).

      It always amazes me that if a person has a deck from Azteca that adds in health stats to the base wizard setup, that people will use all 64 slots and get frustrated/embarrassed about not being able to shine like the rest during battle (it happens), but it is frustrating when a person is a relative newbie, and they are the ones barking orders to everyone else, who wonder when the problem person will even find a hit, or if they are there for proving others wrong.

      Knowing how to simplify gameplay makes the game a little easier to manage when traveling through the Spiral.

      Oxnhorse

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