Dys/functional adventures

Geez... Late night thoughts come at me again...

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I had this idea for a blogpost, but I couldn't find the way to word it well. It's been in my head for weeks, and in a 3AM thought, I can get it out.

Come Monday, I'm gonna be going downtown to join a Roman Catholic Youth Group to head for Cedar Point on Tuesday- Overnighting it in the Church classrooms. I wouldn't be going if it were under the old Youth minister. I got a personal invite from the new one, we've known each other since beforehand (He's seen me around town, and we've met quite a number of times).

I want to make it clear that beyond this line, I'm really trying not to offend anyone. I realize that yes, this is a very sensitive standpoint for people. I just remembered @LoneWiz with his thread, Do social/cultural differences maybe cause some misunderstandings in the forums? and I thought I would follow up with something.

When digging further, I always remember some nasty times from my old school. I was bullied by atheistic kids who really didn't like me questioning my religion. How ironic- Atheists bullying a Christian over questioning his beliefs. -sighs- People in this world today, it's strange. In my opinion, they were just looking for excuses.

I've had some arguments with people in the past on religious topics. Several people agreed- Not all Christians are bible-thumping (Example before you), not all Jews are... that quirky (Is that the best word?), not all atheists are bullies (And I've met some rather nice ones). Stereotypes are everywhere, and we can never get away from them.

I'm an autistic kid. Does that mean I require constant assistance? Does that mean I have no idea how to act in the real world? Does this mean I have to have everything very specific and precise? Does it make me dysfunctional? If you answered yes to the last question only, that's true. It's also true for everyone. As quirky, as offensive as it sounds, everyone is dysfunctional in some way, shape or form. Whether it's a logical lacking, just not noticing something, or maybe even a missing limb. Some way, shape or form.

But- A single person cannot function the whole society. We need many people to bring their heads together, try and develop a good thought pattern, and try to run the place as best as they can to benefit everyone. Religion should be set aside.

That said, I'll go ahead and say that despite that I am a Byzantine Catholic boy, with my dad a never-converted German Lutheran Minister's son, and my mom a huge mix that I only know she started as Jewish and ended Catholic- I am an estranged mix of all sorts of exposures of religions from different people at different standpoints.

Which lead me to a couple points: Strange comfort... and Optimist.

Strange comfort, I won't go into details here.
Optimist... It's a little strange.

You consider yourself atheist... But there's always this feeling that something else is there.
You don't like being held back by religion... but there's something else holding you back, and it's not logic or common sense, or anything you can think of.

I think that my personal beliefs are really- There's no evidence other than this little thing that keeps tapping on the corner of your view ever so slightly and annoyingly, and it's not your little brother's finger on your monitor. Personally, there's always the possibility of a higher plane of existence after death. I met a man on the bus ride downtown one day, and we had a rather extended talk. We had a rather immense talk on people with religion, he was an unsettled man who was found to make a good leader. I found out later that he's a bit of a local figure too, good guy; Inspiring. He said that could be it, that may be it, but it may not be. The wonders of an optimist. Strange how people meeting by chance have the same beliefs.

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Updated 8-8-14 at 5:25:54 PM by YourToothbrush

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  1. YourToothbrush's Avatar
    Looking at the names of people who come to my blog, I'm seeing repeats, some new faces, some people who don't come often, but I keep seeing the lurkin' lukin.

    Hope I'm not on a watchlist or something. O.o
  2. FamilyWiz's Avatar
    What I mainly come away with is I'm glad you don't judge atheists by the actions of the loud and crude just as many of them don't buy into Dawkin's lie about everyone religious is delusional. Of course, with that varied a background, you would tend to be more open-minded by opposing views.

    I'm a devout Jew as you know raised Conservative and stick with my Conservative synagogue from childhood because I am attached to it, like the rabbi and my family and friends are there and I want to worship with them but my leanings are more Reform and probably a mix of my own. I don't keep kosher except inside the homes of people who do (mostly family but friends from temple too) and I'm moving in with my Irish fiance in a couple of months even though the wedding is a year away. We plain want to live together before marriage and see if we are as compatible as we think we are. Plus we're planning a big wedding.

    The two of the people I'm closest to in this world -- as I think I mentioned in that post -- are atheist. My fiance is 2nd generation, raised atheist by two atheists who left Protestant upbringings (yes, Irish protestants!) and my best friend was raised Roman Catholic but no longer believes in God. My belief and their disbelief doesn't really affect the relationship but that's because -- some light-hearted kidding now and then aside -- we respect each other's right to their own belief.

    My fiance has attended Sabbath services with me a few times and plans on coming to temple with me for the high holy days this year. She may or may not in the future but is naturally interested in the faith of the man she is marrying. I will be buying her a membership (with her approval) in my synagogue every year so that she is free to attend with me and our children if she so desires. We have already decided to share both views with our children and they will attend to have the background and receive a Jewish education and will learn their mother's views from their mother and her reasoning behind it in an age appropriate way as they grow. We will let them explore and educate them about other religions too and they will simply choose their own way and we will respect that whether they choose Judaism (for which, since I am will be the father and it goes by the mother, they'd have to convert), atheism or something else that suits them.

    My best friend doesn't believe and other than weddings and funerals and christenings and bar mitzvahs etc. of those close to him does not attend church and wouldn't even for a woman he loved. Luckily for him, his girlfriend is also atheist and lucky for her, she likewise respects my belief. I say lucky for her because it would come between them if she judged me for it or gave me a hard time about it. It would be a problem for him because we've been best friends since we were babies and are more like brothers so he would not take kindly to anyone calling me blind or delusional or needing a crutch or some of these other things in the hard atheist/anti-theist movement do. His parents aren't happy he left the Church but, with time, they've come to accept it. Just like my parents have had to come to accept that I'm not as strictly religious as they are, that my fiance will not be converting since she doesn't believe in God and our children will not be considered Jewish religiously unless they convert. They have contented themselves with they'll be brought to temple at least when they're young (once they're bar/bat mitzvah age, the choice will be theirs) and will receive a Jewish education.

    But just as all (I'd even say most) Christians aren't narrow-minded, Bible-thumpers, all (I'd even say most) atheists aren't anti-theists. As an example, there was a movement to start calling themselves brights much like those with a same-gender preference have used a word for themselves and it didn't take for a reason. Brights kind of implies everyone else is dim and I really think it was just plain too snobby for the atheist community as a whole despite Richard Dawkins' ardent support of it. This was like a dozen years ago, when I was less than half my current age but you don't even want to start my fiance's parents on it. The suggestion angered them and since it's been ill-received overall, well, I think that says that most atheists are no more like that than most Christians are like Phelps.

    Thank God that neither most atheists and Christians are like that! Just the vocal minority.

    Oh, and don't sweat Lukin's lurking. I'm sure he means no harm in it. He may or may not be keeping an eye on the rules. It's a controversial subject that people get heated about but he may also be reading in interest too. Just doing his job and he probably can't, as a moderator, really get involved in any too controversial a discussion. He'd let you know if you overstepped.

    Response: Haha, yeah. It's been fairly frequent that I see lukin or Horsegirl's name on my page. I sometimes end up seeing Milt or Cret92 on my page on P101C, and I understand the entire 'doing their job' thing. lol

    With what you're doing with your fiance, that's actually the best way to handle it. That's only my view, though. I'm personally willing to attend any religious service and participate to the best of my abilities. I've got friends who are various branches of protestant, catholic (My grandma is Roman Catholic while my grandpa was Jewish), some of the more 'forbidden arts' religions too, I've got a couple of Muslim friends, and really? I meet a lot of them at the library. I've got a friend who I think is in a bit of a grind because her mom is Muslim and her dad is Catholic. She's leaning more towards Roman Catholic, and I really don't know what's going to happen. I don't ask because I tend not to talk like this about religion, because it's common towards sparking an argument.
    Updated 8-2-14 at 4:19:47 PM by YourToothbrush (Reply in direct, as I am doing. lol)
  3. Grumpy Cat's Avatar
    Not trying to lurk on you either due to what happened or other things. I just find your writing very insightful and enjoy reading it. I never really look at the other side of things and a lot of your posts make me realize stuff i need to change. You have quite a way with words...
  4. FamilyWiz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneWiz
    What I mainly come away with is I'm glad you don't judge atheists by the actions of the loud and crude just as many of them don't buy into Dawkin's lie about everyone religious is delusional. Of course, with that varied a background, you would tend to be more open-minded by opposing views.

    I'm a devout Jew as you know raised Conservative and stick with my Conservative synagogue from childhood because I am attached to it, like the rabbi and my family and friends are there and I want to worship with them but my leanings are more Reform and probably a mix of my own. I don't keep kosher except inside the homes of people who do (mostly family but friends from temple too) and I'm moving in with my Irish fiance in a couple of months even though the wedding is a year away. We plain want to live together before marriage and see if we are as compatible as we think we are. Plus we're planning a big wedding.

    The two of the people I'm closest to in this world -- as I think I mentioned in that post -- are atheist. My fiance is 2nd generation, raised atheist by two atheists who left Protestant upbringings (yes, Irish protestants!) and my best friend was raised Roman Catholic but no longer believes in God. My belief and their disbelief doesn't really affect the relationship but that's because -- some light-hearted kidding now and then aside -- we respect each other's right to their own belief.

    My fiance has attended Sabbath services with me a few times and plans on coming to temple with me for the high holy days this year. She may or may not in the future but is naturally interested in the faith of the man she is marrying. I will be buying her a membership (with her approval) in my synagogue every year so that she is free to attend with me and our children if she so desires. We have already decided to share both views with our children and they will attend to have the background and receive a Jewish education and will learn their mother's views from their mother and her reasoning behind it in an age appropriate way as they grow. We will let them explore and educate them about other religions too and they will simply choose their own way and we will respect that whether they choose Judaism (for which, since I am will be the father and it goes by the mother, they'd have to convert), atheism or something else that suits them.

    My best friend doesn't believe and other than weddings and funerals and christenings and bar mitzvahs etc. of those close to him does not attend church and wouldn't even for a woman he loved. Luckily for him, his girlfriend is also atheist and lucky for her, she likewise respects my belief. I say lucky for her because it would come between them if she judged me for it or gave me a hard time about it. It would be a problem for him because we've been best friends since we were babies and are more like brothers so he would not take kindly to anyone calling me blind or delusional or needing a crutch or some of these other things in the hard atheist/anti-theist movement do. His parents aren't happy he left the Church but, with time, they've come to accept it. Just like my parents have had to come to accept that I'm not as strictly religious as they are, that my fiance will not be converting since she doesn't believe in God and our children will not be considered Jewish religiously unless they convert. They have contented themselves with they'll be brought to temple at least when they're young (once they're bar/bat mitzvah age, the choice will be theirs) and will receive a Jewish education.

    But just as all (I'd even say most) Christians aren't narrow-minded, Bible-thumpers, all (I'd even say most) atheists aren't anti-theists. As an example, there was a movement to start calling themselves brights much like those with a same-gender preference have used a word for themselves and it didn't take for a reason. Brights kind of implies everyone else is dim and I really think it was just plain too snobby for the atheist community as a whole despite Richard Dawkins' ardent support of it. This was like a dozen years ago, when I was less than half my current age but you don't even want to start my fiance's parents on it. The suggestion angered them and since it's been ill-received overall, well, I think that says that most atheists are no more like that than most Christians are like Phelps.

    Thank God that neither most atheists and Christians are like that! Just the vocal minority.

    Oh, and don't sweat Lukin's lurking. I'm sure he means no harm in it. He may or may not be keeping an eye on the rules. It's a controversial subject that people get heated about but he may also be reading in interest too. Just doing his job and he probably can't, as a moderator, really get involved in any too controversial a discussion. He'd let you know if you overstepped.

    Response: Haha, yeah. It's been fairly frequent that I see lukin or Horsegirl's name on my page. I sometimes end up seeing Milt or Cret92 on my page on P101C, and I understand the entire 'doing their job' thing. lol

    With what you're doing with your fiance, that's actually the best way to handle it. That's only my view, though. I'm personally willing to attend any religious service and participate to the best of my abilities. I've got friends who are various branches of protestant, catholic (My grandma is Roman Catholic while my grandpa was Jewish), some of the more 'forbidden arts' religions too, I've got a couple of Muslim friends, and really? I meet a lot of them at the library. I've got a friend who I think is in a bit of a grind because her mom is Muslim and her dad is Catholic. She's leaning more towards Roman Catholic, and I really don't know what's going to happen. I don't ask because I tend not to talk like this about religion, because it's common towards sparking an argument.
    I'm not sure what reply in direct means as this is my first venture into the blogs section so I hope I'm doing it right.

    Oh, after her curiosity's satisfied, she won't be attending with me and, down the road, the children as often. She's honest about that and really why would she? It's not her belief set. She says she'll attend with us on holidays and the like and maybe now and then, especially if the children want her to. Mostly, it'll be me taking them. My job to teach them my beliefs and hers to teach them why she doesn't believe in any kind of a deity. I would fail explaining that and she would fail trying to teach them Judaism past the most basic things. We love each other but I don't truly understand her disbelief and she doesn't truly understand my belief. We just respect each other's right to believe or disbelieve as we choose.

    Same here. I steer away from it. Tend to say to each their own and as long as they aren't using religion as an excuse to harm anyone -- and only extremists do that -- it's their own business. People are very passionate about what they believe, even if they believe there is no god. In the end, it really is and I really do believe it's the vocal minority that bend religion to a hateful purpose. After all, why would God create a world wherein people were always at each other. Arguing over how they view Him is not what He wanted so I leave others to their view of God and me to mine. It's a very personal thing and should be that way.

    I guess that's why I'm cool with whatever direction my children go. I pretty much feel it's all just man's interpretation of God. Various leaders preached their various vision of God and various religions formed. It's that and nothing more and the atheists and agnostics are just the skeptics of everyone's, doubting any god even exists. As the three I hang around with are wont of saying, they only believe in one less god than I do out of the hundreds of "gods" in this world. I put that in quotes because I personally believe it's all the same god and people just view Him differently. I can't help but feel that a deity would be above pettiness and understanding of that skepticism so I sort of doubt he has a problem with it really and if he doesn't, why should I?

    As you can probably kind of tell, I veer a bit from my upbringing too though I retain my Jewish faith. I think with true faith that is necessary because one's relationship with God is a personal thing and different for every one of us.
  5. YourToothbrush's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneWiz
    I'm not sure what reply in direct means as this is my first venture into the blogs section so I hope I'm doing it right.

    Oh, after her curiosity's satisfied, she won't be attending with me and, down the road, the children as often. She's honest about that and really why would she? It's not her belief set. She says she'll attend with us on holidays and the like and maybe now and then, especially if the children want her to. Mostly, it'll be me taking them. My job to teach them my beliefs and hers to teach them why she doesn't believe in any kind of a deity. I would fail explaining that and she would fail trying to teach them Judaism past the most basic things. We love each other but I don't truly understand her disbelief and she doesn't truly understand my belief. We just respect each other's right to believe or disbelieve as we choose.

    Same here. I steer away from it. Tend to say to each their own and as long as they aren't using religion as an excuse to harm anyone -- and only extremists do that -- it's their own business. People are very passionate about what they believe, even if they believe there is no god. In the end, it really is and I really do believe it's the vocal minority that bend religion to a hateful purpose. After all, why would God create a world wherein people were always at each other. Arguing over how they view Him is not what He wanted so I leave others to their view of God and me to mine. It's a very personal thing and should be that way.

    I guess that's why I'm cool with whatever direction my children go. I pretty much feel it's all just man's interpretation of God. Various leaders preached their various vision of God and various religions formed. It's that and nothing more and the atheists and agnostics are just the skeptics of everyone's, doubting any god even exists. As the three I hang around with are wont of saying, they only believe in one less god than I do out of the hundreds of "gods" in this world. I put that in quotes because I personally believe it's all the same god and people just view Him differently. I can't help but feel that a deity would be above pettiness and understanding of that skepticism so I sort of doubt he has a problem with it really and if he doesn't, why should I?

    As you can probably kind of tell, I veer a bit from my upbringing too though I retain my Jewish faith. I think with true faith that is necessary because one's relationship with God is a personal thing and different for every one of us.
    Hey, I'm still trying to figure it out myself. I'm a little surprised mentions work here. XD

    Honestly, looking a little into forbidden arts religions sometimes calms me. I mean- nobody say I'm demonic or anything, or whatever you see fit; this is just how I am- but there was a time when you could draw a pentagram in any-color sharpie on a piece of paper, shove it in my face, and Aspie-me would be calm within a minute.

    And honestly? We choose our own religion, we choose what to believe. I'm just a kid who doesn't know what to believe, and thinks on it all the time. Whoever we are, we all want to believe something, right? We just need time to figure it all out. Some choose one direction, others choose the same direction we do, others go in different directions- It's all a matter of respect to others who go that way. I'd mentioned this to several people already, and I'll repeat it whenever I see fit.

    I really don't care who you are. You could be the homeless guy sitting on my porch, you could be the rich kid who always gets his way, you could even be remotely related to Adolf Hitler (If you were him, I'd have to find the nearest blunt object...). You're a person, you have feelings. If you respect me for who I am, what I am, what I believe, etc., and treat me with that respect, I'll do the same for you, and remain loyal.
    Updated 8-4-14 at 3:33:44 PM by YourToothbrush
  6. YourToothbrush's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by March Hare
    Not trying to lurk on you either due to what happened or other things. I just find your writing very insightful and enjoy reading it. I never really look at the other side of things and a lot of your posts make me realize stuff i need to change. You have quite a way with words...
    Change does take time- Everyone goes through change in some way, drastically and in small doses each. It's scary no matter the case. For me, I can easily adjust to a different color mechanical pencil, but I cannot at all do a big routine adjustment towards something deemed unnecessary in my view. And really? Issues shouldn't matter. People may read my blog as they like, it doesn't seem like lurking to me. It's in public view.