A Poll on KI's Decision to Add Guilds

[BaronvonWolf]

This entire conversation is EXACTLY why I started the Poll/Thread. The ONLY way to ensure that KI does NOT hear our views is to do/say nothing at all.

I love the direction this is going where we are seeing both sides of the coin, but I am still on the edge leaning to the side of not having them because of the potential danger of abuse and for the "kids".

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I really hope you mean Beast Moon and not the other "constipated" meaning of BM (LOL). If you do start a Beast Moon guild, that would probably be the only one I would consider joining, unless some of the other in the Central Family that I love and respect started any.

i only know Blood moon

[The Lone Ninja Escapist]

I find it concerning how KI--who always turned down the idea for being against the kid-friendly environment of the game for years--all of a sudden have decided guilds should finally come to the game.

The toxicity of guilds were bad then, and they're still bad now (if not worse, though isolated). I guess with the popularity of a certain gaming chat platform, they're comfortable putting out something similar for community engagement.

However with KI's track record, I'm not confident that they're going to implement guilds without the usual strings attached that they're not telling us right now. How much content are they going to gate from non-participants of guilds? Have they really considered everything that could happen in a guild? Is the support team even ready to handle the reports that are going to come in from the potential abuses from said feature?

I'd be okay with guilds if they're proven safe from toxic behavior and dangerous activities. Though, I also hope it's not another scheme to either pressure solo players to join in activities they don't want, or it's another cash grab that lacks content that will get ignored altogether in future updates.

[Cosmos]

I don't know if I buy the whole "guilds are inherently toxic" argument. There are fairly tame games like Puzzle Pirates that integrate crews/guilds into their gameplay loop, and it can help build a real sense of community and competition without becoming too nasty. And I also don't see how it would drastically make abuse increase as compared to the types of social systems that we already have in the game.

I am somewhat worried about exclusive guild quests. I get the point that it is an MMO, but there are some times when I just wanna fly solo. The game walling me off from major content b/c I'm not with guildmembers strikes me as red flag.

Still, I think we have to wait to see how this plays out. I'm not against their implementation, and I do think that guilds can really benefit social play, but I want to see KI's plans before I make a judgement.

[Sierra SeaSong]

it just depends on who the main cast is for the guild
cuz i'll just have my bm guild

Sorry, that is one of the problems right there, we already have "exclusive groups" running around. Being late to beastmoon, I am not part of any of these clubs. It does not stop me from doing BM, I am pretty adept at randoms by now, but it does put me at a major disadvantage in progress.
I am not picking on you personally, its great to have a group you can rely on. I just think guilds are going to exasperate this issue, widening the gap between the haves and have nots.

[BaronvonWolf]

Sorry, that is one of the problems right there, we already have "exclusive groups" running around. Being late to beastmoon, I am not part of any of these clubs. It does not stop me from doing BM, I am pretty adept at randoms by now, but it does put me at a major disadvantage in progress.
I am not picking on you personally, its great to have a group you can rely on. I just think guilds are going to exasperate this issue, widening the gap between the haves and have nots.

i know your quite good you ran into my storm elf we lost 2 players and still got to the final wave and i'm not part of the excluesive groups they are far too toxic

[Sparck]

I think we're likely blowing it out of proportion lol; It's probably a glorified "social group" with ribbons thing at best.

The only tid-bit they give us is "exclusive" rewards and we're running to fairy tail land with it, that could quite literally just be guild capes for all we know, with 0 stats or meaning beyond showing your "spirit" to said guild.

While I hope for perks like trading, banks, gold sharing things like that would be super cool, I'm really lost at why some players are already saying they'd quit over something not even accessible in a test realm yet. I can assure you of a couple things:

1) Guilds will almost certainly never be required to progress the story line, KI knows they have a huge solo player base that like "higher" difficulty, guilds aren't for them, nor will be required of them, that would just hurt their players, thus their wallet. Not in their best sense, or even dumb sense to even think of doing that. Can they lock some fancy 8 player mount behind a guild quest/dungeon? Sure, but that's your choice then, it's still not something needed to enjoy/complete the game.

2) Any players breaking rules (or groups now) can still be reported and banned, and their guilds likely disbanded, even without an "actual" guild feature, these still exist regardless, so why keep it from the good players that would enjoy/use the feature correctly because of bad apples in a healthy tree? Call me optimistic but I feel there's way more good players than bad for it to be even noticeable. Besides, I'd love to see a re-do of hall monitors, even if that turns into a white knight guild.

3) Guilds aren't about exclusivity, they're about inclusion.. It's to encourage everyone to take part, not feel discouraged to choose not, it's a hard balancing act for sure, but Wizard101 is not the type of game for "controlled area, guild wars." etc, If we get Guild pvp, I'd be shocked, but even that is not anything close to what people are trying to suggest as being manifested as to make them feel "left out."

and realistically, if it's that big of deal, those hardcore enough already likely multi-box and can make a guild for their own characters and socialize with nobody if they wish. But again I doubt it's going anywhere near the ideas being touched. I look forward to banners/emblems next to our names but I have 0 guesses of everything too crazy outside of that.

It's okay to think of all the possibilities, but it hasn't even touched test realm yet, or more than a small announcement, I think we're really jumping the gun here. I'm catching the drift of "exclusive" sounds intimidating, but it's also needs to be taken with an open mind, because that's all they've really announced, exclusive rewards can be anything.

Excellent feedback! The concerns are duly noted. But yes, there's much more inclusivity about Guilds than I think is being given credit at the moment. Guilds is something worth having for Wizard101, but since it hasn't had it before, it's understandable that it's a bit of an unknown.

To note, Guilds is a passion of mine. I've been a CM of MMORPGs for over 20 years now and have been involved in Guilds all that time. Guilds is by far a more positive influence to games that outweigh the negatives. There are always going to be group concerns when a group is created, there are going to be abuse and fighting concerns when players fight each other in pvp, there are going to be exclusivity concerns when solo quests are established as opposed to public group quests.

Are there going to be abuse issues and complaints about one guild concerned about another in Wizard101? Probably at some point, but that may be an indirect association of a bigger concern about those individuals. Simply having a more permanent way to form groups doesn't inherently make grouping a problem by default. It's how it's implemented, and, how the community helps each other to support that system, identify actual problems, and seek ways to improve it with the dev team.

You can make exclusivity arguments in every direction, but at the end of the day Guilds is something in games designed to be helpful for players to identify themselves with others they feel comfortable being around. A permanent group they can associate with outside of the normal flow of the game's activities. That is, generally in my opinion at least, a positive system to have.

To help combat uncertainty around how we're developing Guilds, we'll do our best to describe what is coming up for the feature. We also need the support of community leaders such as yourselves can help point out the positives as well, not just theoretical negatives that may or may not apply.

Note that today is our Guilds Roundtable with WhiteTiger93! We'll be answering community questions and listening to feedback on our approach to guild development to take into account for the summer update Test Realm, and future Test Realms as the feature gets further developed.

I really hope you all will enjoy Guilds and have fun building one together! I can't wait to see your guild houses too .

[Fluxx]

I played WOW before I found this to play with my kids(I got hooked instead). World of Warcraft guilds were like HOA's generally. Some people felt ownership like a king. If this ever comes to this - no more for me.

[Sierra SeaSong]

To help combat uncertainty around how we're developing Guilds, we'll do our best to describe what is coming up for the feature. We also need the support of community leaders such as yourselves can help point out the positives as well, not just theoretical negatives that may or may not apply.

Aren't your positives also theoretical? Kind of passive aggressive way to state that imo.

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How are you going to get feedback if you do not allow questions in your roundtable? I only got halfway through, its more of an info mercial then anything else/ I guess they got all the feedback they needed beforehand.

[Sierra SeaSong]

i know your quite good you ran into my storm elf we lost 2 players and still got to the final wave and i'm not part of the excluesive groups they are far too toxic

So we agree, groups tend to get toxic

[Pegasus Unbound]

Excellent feedback! The concerns are duly noted. But yes, there's much more inclusivity about Guilds than I think is being given credit at the moment. Guilds is something worth having for Wizard101, but since it hasn't had it before, it's understandable that it's a bit of an unknown.

To note, Guilds is a passion of mine. I've been a CM of MMORPGs for over 20 years now and have been involved in Guilds all that time. Guilds is by far a more positive influence to games that outweigh the negatives. There are always going to be group concerns when a group is created, there are going to be abuse and fighting concerns when players fight each other in pvp, there are going to be exclusivity concerns when solo quests are established as opposed to public group quests.

Are there going to be abuse issues and complaints about one guild concerned about another in Wizard101? Probably at some point, but that may be an indirect association of a bigger concern about those individuals. Simply having a more permanent way to form groups doesn't inherently make grouping a problem by default. It's how it's implemented, and, how the community helps each other to support that system, identify actual problems, and seek ways to improve it with the dev team.

You can make exclusivity arguments in every direction, but at the end of the day Guilds is something in games designed to be helpful for players to identify themselves with others they feel comfortable being around. A permanent group they can associate with outside of the normal flow of the game's activities. That is, generally in my opinion at least, a positive system to have.

To help combat uncertainty around how we're developing Guilds, we'll do our best to describe what is coming up for the feature. We also need the support of community leaders such as yourselves can help point out the positives as well, not just theoretical negatives that may or may not apply.

Note that today is our Guilds Roundtable with WhiteTiger93! We'll be answering community questions and listening to feedback on our approach to guild development to take into account for the summer update Test Realm, and future Test Realms as the feature gets further developed.

I really hope you all will enjoy Guilds and have fun building one together! I can't wait to see your guild houses too .

I appreciate your input and explanations (Which are more complete than any other KI staffer has even began to offer) which is why I left your entire post intact in my reply.

After the roundtable and all the concerns that have been made since this entire issue was announced, I also have to agree that the roundtable was more of an informercial and that to this date, our (Your customers who pay for your paychecks) actual concerns have not been addressed sufficiently on any level.

Saying there will always be people who abuse the system is not an answer, to me it is an excuse to not at least put some control mechanisms in place; and so far to this point there has not even been a suggestion or explanation of what counter measures would or could be considered, let alone actually be taken.

As others have pointed out, what might be great in one game or gaming environment does not on any level mean it is great or even appropriate in others. Just a reminder, W101 AND P101 BOTH are supposed to be family friendly environments and sadly from all I have learned guilds tend to be extremely toxic to such environments and usually tend to foster favoritism...something we are already seeing from the Dev's in regards to how PvP is taking over the entire game while other things/bugs that are years old are being flat out ignored. I can't help but think, given past KI actions or lack of actions, that this guild thing is going to be yet another distraction from fixing what should have been fixed AGES ago.

I really am trying to keep and open mind on this, but when I look at the greater picture it just does not seem like something we need to even consider UNTIL AFTER the bugs and such from not just months but years ago are fixed once and for all.