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    Results 1 to 10 of 14
    1. #1
      Torpzun26's Avatar
        Torpzun26 is online now Journeyman Wizard

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      Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      Found here.

      In this Dev Diary, Ratbeard explains the thought process behind a lot of the new changes being made, such as Damage and Resist Intersections, the equalizing of Blades, Traps, and Globals, etc.

      What are your thoughts on this?
      Last edited by Torpzun26; 4-5-21 at 4:24:17 PM. Reason: Work with me, website, please

    2. #2
      Pegasus Unbound's Avatar
        Pegasus Unbound is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Unhappy Re: Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      Still no sign of any fixes on the Beastmoon Badges either in the mentioned Dev Notes or on Test Realm. Is this issue even being looked at?
      "Yes, My Lord"

    3. #3
        Orzee is offline Apprentice Wizard

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      Re: Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      The short answer, they're treating PvP and PvE almost as different games at this point. There will be long posts about what's good and bad about it, school identity, and such. But I think their vision for the game is so fundamentally different from the game itself, that instead of "fixing" the game, they're changing it to be closer to their vision.

      To me, Ratbeard took on PvP and is doing everything in his power to make PvP look and play the way he wants it to. I've seen him stream PvE and it's evident that they're not fans of the way Wizard101 plays. I think PvP will generally love this update and I very much think the game as a whole will be better with it than without. They have a vision and they're sticking to it.

      Let me be clear here, I think the mechanics need a lot of work. I was excited for the stat rebalance and looked forward to seeing the comeback of flat damage and resist. What I didn't expect was this limit function monstrosity. I wasn't a big fan of Pirate101 when it came out, but boy was it clear why Pirate plays so much better. The mechanics are simple, the combat is intricate, and it scales incredibly well. Any game designer worth their salt will tell you to design a game linearly. So obviously you can't have percentage based stats rising to unforseen levels. So you do one of two things: you control it or you rework it.

      They chose to rework it. Good. But they keep limiting these out of control stats by capping them instead of fixing the problem. The problem is gear. There I said it. The gear wasn't incentivizing enough and power creep took over. Why did this happen? Money. Every single dungeon, every single crown item, every single craftable item was down to player engagement, membership, and purchases. Jade gear, Waterworks, Darkmoor, Maycast wands, pets, jewels - every single thing that came out was about getting players to spend money on a pay-to-win-style purchase. KI is still implementing these things under the guise of Spellements and Gauntlets and gear sets and dungeons. And until these go away, KI will need to have a scale that accommodates these mechanics.

      Each world release, they have new gear. Then they release a new pack with slightly better gear. Then they release a dungeon with more gear. And so on and so on. So the easiest solution in their eyes is to cap it. They can increase the cap at a later date and keep going. They don't have to worry about stats getting out of hand because they capped it and pushed the problem off until tomorrow. In 5 years down the road when the developers leave for Activision or EA, a new set of developers with a new vision will come in. Maybe they'll fix it, maybe they won't.

      The core fix is simple: linearize it legitimately and rescale it. It's going to take a lot of work, but it will be worth it. I'd personally scale it flat damage. I'd leave percentage-based damage and resist out. I'd get rid of sun enchants and I'd re-evaluate all the gear. Jewel sockets will be re-assessed. You'd have meaningful level-ups and base stats. (Gear reliance is too high in this game. Think of all the sections on each gear. Every single piece of gear has stats on it. Decks, mounts, amulets, pets, they have stats now. Not anymore.) Flat damage will be just like enchants. Flat resist will function like it does now (except will be divided on overtimes so they still function well). Flat healing boost. Flat everything. All combat modifiers can remain percentages. The core of the gameplay doesn't change much. Just percentages. It scales well and combat counters can keep these modifiers at bay. They know that flat damage and resist works well. They implemented it into Beastmoon very effectively. I was actually really excited that they'd nail it. I love Beastmoon. But, we got this.

      I'd be much more content with this fix if I didn't expect to get more new packs this year, new gauntlets, and new spellements we must farm for. We got our skeleton key bosses and spellements to farm for and to purchase, and there'll be a new pack after this update, I'm sure.
      Last edited by Orzee; 4-5-21 at 5:23:20 PM. Reason: grammar

    4. #4
      Jesse Strong's Avatar
        Jesse Strong is online now Prodigious

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      Re: Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      Quote Originally Posted by Orzee View Post
      The short answer, they're treating PvP and PvE almost as different games at this point. There will be long posts about what's good and bad about it, school identity, and such. But I think their vision for the game is so fundamentally different from the game itself, that instead of "fixing" the game, they're changing it to be closer to their vision.

      To me, Ratbeard took on PvP and is doing everything in his power to make PvP look and play the way he wants it to. I've seen him stream PvE and it's evident that they're not fans of the way Wizard101 plays. I think PvP will generally love this update and I very much think the game as a whole will be better with it than without. They have a vision and they're sticking to it.

      Let me be clear here, I think the mechanics need a lot of work. I was excited for the stat rebalance and looked forward to seeing the comeback of flat damage and resist. What I didn't expect was this limit function monstrosity. I wasn't a big fan of Pirate101 when it came out, but boy was it clear why Pirate plays so much better. The mechanics are simple, the combat is intricate, and it scales incredibly well. Any game designer worth their salt will tell you to design a game linearly. So obviously you can't have percentage based stats rising to unforseen levels. So you do one of two things: you control it or you rework it.

      They chose to rework it. Good. But they keep limiting these out of control stats by capping them instead of fixing the problem. The problem is gear. There I said it. The gear wasn't incentivizing enough and power creep took over. Why did this happen? Money. Every single dungeon, every single crown item, every single craftable item was down to player engagement, membership, and purchases. Jade gear, Waterworks, Darkmoor, Maycast wands, pets, jewels - every single thing that came out was about getting players to spend money on a pay-to-win-style purchase. KI is still implementing these things under the guise of Spellements and Gauntlets and gear sets and dungeons. And until these go away, KI will need to have a scale that accommodates these mechanics.

      Each world release, they have new gear. Then they release a new pack with slightly better gear. Then they release a dungeon with more gear. And so on and so on. So the easiest solution in their eyes is to cap it. They can increase the cap at a later date and keep going. They don't have to worry about stats getting out of hand because they capped it and pushed the problem off until tomorrow. In 5 years down the road when the developers leave for Activision or EA, a new set of developers with a new vision will come in. Maybe they'll fix it, maybe they won't.

      The core fix is simple: linearize it legitimately and rescale it. It's going to take a lot of work, but it will be worth it. I'd personally scale it flat damage. I'd leave percentage-based damage and resist out. I'd get rid of sun enchants and I'd re-evaluate all the gear. Jewel sockets will be re-assessed. You'd have meaningful level-ups and base stats. (Gear reliance is too high in this game. Think of all the sections on each gear. Every single piece of gear has stats on it. Decks, mounts, amulets, pets, they have stats now. Not anymore.) Flat damage will be just like enchants. Flat resist will function like it does now (except will be divided on overtimes so they still function well). Flat healing boost. Flat everything. All combat modifiers can remain percentages. The core of the gameplay doesn't change much. Just percentages. It scales well and combat counters can keep these modifiers at bay. They know that flat damage and resist works well. They implemented it into Beastmoon very effectively. I was actually really excited that they'd nail it. I love Beastmoon. But, we got this.

      I'd be much more content with this fix if I didn't expect to get more new packs this year, new gauntlets, and new spellements we must farm for. We got our skeleton key bosses and spellements to farm for and to purchase, and there'll be a new pack after this update, I'm sure.
      Honestly, the only thing i see that it can affect pve is damage and getting 200 damage is hard so not everyone has it. Resist is 125% which is more than immunity so i dont see that affecting pve, i dont think this is a huge change to pve and i dont think it affected it as bad as you think.
      Last edited by Jesse Strong; 4-5-21 at 5:40:02 PM.

    5. #5
      Phenoixblizzard's Avatar
        Phenoixblizzard is offline Adept Wizard

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        •  Ice
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        •  Fern
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        •  Mega Snow Beast
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      Re: Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      I actually liked my blades the way they were. I'll just have to adjust how many blades I need now when hitting I guess.
      Wizards vs Bosses


    6. #6
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is online now Grandmaster Wizard

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      Thumbs down Re: Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      @Ratbeard, you should list all of the audited spells in the update notes. From the looks of it, a boatload of Treasure Cards and spells have been altered, along with a bunch of new Spellements added. It's difficult to give constructive feedback when I don't even know what I'm commentating on!



      Quote Originally Posted by Orzee View Post
      Why did this happen? Money. ...KI is still implementing these things under the guise of Spellements and Gauntlets and gear sets and dungeons.
      And until these go away, KI will need to have a scale that accommodates these mechanics.I'd be much more content with this fix if I didn't expect to get more new packs this year, new gauntlets, and new spellements we must farm for. We got our skeleton key bosses and spellements to farm for and to purchase, and there'll be a new pack after this update, I'm sure.
      Exactly. For how much the Devs may want to rebalance our stats, that's impossible so long as PTW gear exists! This might be marketing's fault to an extent, but there has decidedly been a lack of Developer commentary on just how toxic premium gear/spells are.



      KingsIsle: Stats are out of control!
      Also KingsIsle: Have another new Spellemental pack, gauntlet, and Spellemental spell!



      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back." -Cosmos
      . . . with Persistence, Victory is assured.




    7. #7
      SeptenaryRavens's Avatar
        SeptenaryRavens is offline Magus Wizard
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      Re: Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      Quote Originally Posted by Orzee View Post
      ...looked forward to seeing the comeback of flat damage and resist. What I didn't expect was this limit function monstrosity...

      ...money...jade gear, Waterworks, Darkmoor, Maycast wands, pets, jewels - every single thing that came out was about getting players to spend money on a pay-to-win-style purchase...until these go away, KI will need to have a scale that accommodates these mechanics.

      ...flat damage...leave percentage-based damage and resist out...get rid of sun enchants...jewel sockets will be re-assessed...have meaningful level-ups and base stats...Flat healing boost...Flat everything...the core of the gameplay doesn't change much. Just percentages. It scales well and combat counters can keep these modifiers at bay.
      The money issue is so broad I'm sure someone could write a whole 7-book series on it. I feel like KI took an easier - more short term - path to creating a "fix" for the resist and damage saga, not only to make stat rework on gear a lot easier, but to prevent a large chunk of the playerbase cancelling memberships and leaving the game. Players, including myself, have put in a lot of time and money over the last decade+. I couldn't tell you how many energy elixirs I've bought trying to get perfect pets. If KI were to completely revamp a system that has been in the game since day 1 (critical has been changed a few times, but it wasn't in the game until 2 years after beta), I'd be gone. Percent based stats are what make the game enjoyable for me. As someone who both dual boxes and has 4 maxes on each account, I can easily mix and match different sets on different wizards to fit my playstyle. With flat damage and resist (and the complete obliteration of pet stats), all of the hard work would be trash and I would have to leave.

      I would much rather see Wizard101 shut down than see KI purposefully destroy and trash the hard work of paying players and subscribers through updates.

      Time for a Wizard101 2.0? (Wizard202)




    8. #8
      jlegendwielder's Avatar
        jlegendwielder is offline Initiate Wizard
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      Re: Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      There goes the One In a Million badge...


      "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam."

    9. #9
      Eric Stormbringer's Avatar
        Eric Stormbringer is online now Wizard101 US Faculty

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      Re: Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      Quote Originally Posted by SeptenaryRavens View Post
      The money issue is so broad I'm sure someone could write a whole 7-book series on it. I feel like KI took an easier - more short term - path to creating a "fix" for the resist and damage saga, not only to make stat rework on gear a lot easier, but to prevent a large chunk of the playerbase cancelling memberships and leaving the game. Players, including myself, have put in a lot of time and money over the last decade+. I couldn't tell you how many energy elixirs I've bought trying to get perfect pets. If KI were to completely revamp a system that has been in the game since day 1 (critical has been changed a few times, but it wasn't in the game until 2 years after beta), I'd be gone. Percent based stats are what make the game enjoyable for me. As someone who both dual boxes and has 4 maxes on each account, I can easily mix and match different sets on different wizards to fit my playstyle. With flat damage and resist (and the complete obliteration of pet stats), all of the hard work would be trash and I would have to leave.

      I would much rather see Wizard101 shut down than see KI purposefully destroy and trash the hard work of paying players and subscribers through updates.

      Time for a Wizard101 2.0? (Wizard202)
      You got it right. As @Orzee stated a flat damage/resist system would have probably been best from a pure balance perspective. In fact we did consider it and we do see that a flat system works well where it is implemented(Beastmoon Hunt). However, player feedback indicated that a flat system would be unpalatable to the majority of the playerbase. It's the same reason we keep Alpha Strikes. Yes the PvE meta would be more diverse and engaging if the emphasis on "Buff to AoE" was reworked- however, this dynamic has become a staple of Wizard101 and players have given us strong indication that they prefer this current model. Thus, the main game remains the place where Alpha Strike continues to be the dominant strategy and side bosses(and sometimes end of content bosses as well) are where we provide more diverse combat options to the player base.

      This doesn't change the fact that power creep needed/needs to be addressed. The game was simply not sustainable if the power curve continued unfettered, The power curve affects everything from the difference in gameplay experience between casual and "hardcore" players to the direction and viability of future content. Thus we came up with a compromise solution that would allow stats to grow while also constraining the power curve within manageable limits. Best of all there is some future-proofing involved as the limit and curve can be adjusted to meet player needs. This is where feedback comes into play. We have been closely watching the feedback here and on other venues to measure player perception of the changes. While it's unlikely to be removed(we are trying to keep the game sustainable afterall), player feedback is an important consideration that will affect the form this update(and future ones) ultimately take.
      Last edited by Eric Stormbringer; 4-5-21 at 11:56:43 PM.

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    10. #10
      FusionSun's Avatar
        FusionSun is offline Initiate Wizard

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      Re: Meta Mayhem! Test Realm Dev Diary

      Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stormbringer View Post
      You got it right. As @Orzee stated a flat damage/resist system would have probably been best from a pure balance perspective. In fact we did consider it and we do see that a flat system works well where it is implemented(Beastmoon Hunt). However, player feedback indicated that a flat system would be unpalatable to the majority of the playerbase. It's the same reason we keep Alpha Strikes. Yes the PvE meta would be more diverse and engaging if the emphasis on "Buff to AoE" was reworked- however, this dynamic has become a staple of Wizard101 and players have given us strong indication that they prefer this current model. Thus, the main game remains the place where Alpha Strike continues to be the dominant strategy and side bosses(and sometimes end of content bosses as well) are where we provide more diverse combat options to the player base.

      This doesn't change the fact that power creep needed/needs to be addressed. The game was simply not sustainable if the power curve continued unfettered, The power curve affects everything from the difference in gameplay experience between casual and "hardcore" players to the direction and viability of future content. Thus we came up with a compromise solution that would allow stats to grow while also constraining the power curve within manageable limits. Best of all there is some future-proofing involved as the limit and curve can be adjusted to meet player needs. This is where feedback comes into play. We have been closely watching the feedback here and on other venues to measure player perception of the changes. While it's unlikely to be removed(we are trying to keep the game sustainable afterall), player feedback is an important consideration that will affect the form this update(and future ones) ultimately take.
      The problem with limits, Eric, is that stats are allowed to keep on increasing, but our effectiveness in combat from these stats is not. Let's say that at level 140, someone has 170% damage. Because of limits, at level 250, they will STILL HAVE somewhere around 170% damage (assuming they chase the new gear), never being able to reach and exceed 200%. We have the same problem with resist; people are going to be able to keep on increasing their resist stat, but the percentage will not be increasing once they exceed the intersection value and approach the limit. Limits make damage and resist stagnant, and because the other stats in game either have a hard cap or a limit already, you are literally not getting stronger as you level up. People complainthat new world gear is barely an improvement over what we had before, but changing damage and resist to limits will make it so that the ONLY benefit you get from new world gear is health.

      The entire problem with damage, pierce, and resist is that they are percentages. The developers from 2009 knew this. As long as you try to keep the stats as percentages, we will not be able to have meaningful growth as we level up. Limits are just a bandaid solution that push the problem off to the future, and someday in the future when everyone has 300% damage, you're going to be hearing a LOT of complaints that their actual damage percent is <200% and that it's pointless to chase new gear. Just convert everything to flat stats so we can have linear and MEANINGFUL stat progression again, while also keeping things sustainable for the game. People are going to complain about the change, but as with any controversial change to the game, people complain about it only for less than a month and then get used to it pretty quickly. It's far better than pushing it off into the future, and then having to deal with complaints that level 200s have the exact same stats as level 140s, just with more health.

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