Trainable TC/Spells Poll

[Dylan Windwalker]

I'm a bit disappointed with the Ice options as Chinook Genie is just a Woolly Mammoth for one pip less, and Frost Dragon is just what Angry Snowpig should have been (and could still be after audit or with Spellements...), so that only leaves Polar Swarm. I think it could be good, but from what I've heard Ratbeard say I thought they were content with Ice's lowest cost DoT being Frostbite.

I would have liked to see stuff with new effects like Snowball Strike, Ice Efreet, Suten Sokkwi, or Krokhotep.

Something to bear in mind with all of these is that, if they become trainable, they will undergo an audit to balance out their power levels. So the Efreet's aren't going to stay -90%s, and none of the Damage + Bubbles are going to stay that cheap.

Yeah its old there's only 3 options...would have loved to see those as options...

[Tanner Hex]

Something to bear in mind with all of these is that, if they become trainable, they will undergo an audit to balance out their power levels. So the Efreet's aren't going to stay -90%s, and none of the Damage + Bubbles are going to stay that cheap.

Yeah, I think this is something else that is probably messing up the poll results. People may be voting for the Efreet variants on the premise that it would still have the -90% weakness which probably isn't gonna happen. People may likewise be voting for Leafstorm on the premise that they are just gonna get handed an AoE spell that they don't have to work for. It sounds like we will need to grind spellements to get these, and who knows how much grinding that will entail at the moment?

It would also be nice if Wizard101Devs would clarify what these polls will influence - is each school only going to get one TC spell ever, or are these polls being used to determine which spells should be first priority to program in? The latter might help assuage the concerns people are having over potentially skewed poll results.

[JaredSpellFrost]

Community: wants balanced pvp.

Also community: votes for broken tc spells that shouldn't exist in the first place to become permanent.

Thank God this is just for fun (hopefully)...

Saw that on Twitter, and I wanted to repost it here. Devils advocate here though, I will say the entire presentation of this poll leaves much to be desired. The Devs have been more than cryptic in explaining how these new spell additions would pan out, and how they would deal with spells that clearly run counter to their associated school. Not to mention the inherently flawed nature of this poll...
I honestly don't see how they could properly nerf some of these spells (Brown Spider, Fire Beetle, Rat Magician, etc.) without stripping them of their unique properties completely, unless the number of copies are limited.



I also saw this image in the Twitter thread, and KingsIsle should really look into adding some of these spells! Unique utility not attached to any hits IMO is the way to go moving forward.

[richardDkht]

please do leave scirocco Djinn out.

It only has uses in specific events, and if it is to transform it into a single-hit RA and trash it right away, don't really see the reason.

At least as a TC it has some utility.

Don't care about the others, as I wouldn't use any of those anyway.. there is my vote.

[KieranCaster]

please do leave scirocco Djinn out.

It only has uses in specific events, and if it is to transform it into a single-hit RA and trash it right away, don't really see the reason.

At least as a TC it has some utility.

Don't care about the others, as I wouldn't use any of those anyway.. there is my vote.

The developers considering certain spells to be trainable is counter to the announcement of making the schools true to their original intent.

• Some of these spells should not be trainable - Scirocco Djinn being one of them.
• Storm Elf another. This should not be made trainable.
• Polar Swarm and Chinook Genie are other spells that should not be made trainable. RatBeard specifically talks about making ice less an offensive power, and making these spells trainable is polar opposite of that plan

• Some spells make sense, like Red Ghost. Death does not have a damage bubble.
• Fire Wyvern is an overtime spell that makes sense.

This post is difficult to digest when we hear/read one thing a few months ago, and then the total opposite is being considered.

Just my thoughts.
KC

[Eric Stormbringer]

The developers considering certain spells to be trainable is counter to the announcement of making the schools true to their original intent.

• Some of these spells should not be trainable - Scirocco Djinn being one of them.
• Storm Elf another. This should not be made trainable.
• Polar Swarm and Chinook Genie are other spells that should not be made trainable. RatBeard specifically talks about making ice less an offensive power, and making these spells trainable is polar opposite of that plan

• Some spells make sense, like Red Ghost. Death does not have a damage bubble.
• Fire Wyvern is an overtime spell that makes sense.

This post is difficult to digest when we hear/read one thing a few months ago, and then the total opposite is being considered.

Just my thoughts.
KC

Those spell options being added were based on player request so once again we have the situation where the Devs are being lambasted for listening to feedback by the same players who often insist the Devs don't listen to feedback. The Devs themselves jokingly referred to this in the very same thread.

[KieranCaster]

Those spell options being added were based on player request so once again we have the situation where the Devs are being lambasted for listening to feedback by the same players who often insist the Devs don't listen to feedback. The Devs themselves jokingly referred to this in the very same thread.

Thanks Eric.. this reminds me of, "no good deed goes unpunished."

In support of the developers, they have listened a lot this past year, and I can feel them being pulled in both directions at once. This is a good example of that.

Listening to the players is one thing; executing what they are yelling for is another.

I like that they have listened - this poll supports that, and if they choose to provide certain spells as trainable or choose not to provide certain spells as trainable, a short explanation to how they arrived at the decisions is always appreciated.

Just my thoughts.

[JaredSpellFrost]

@Eric Stormbringer

I commend the Devs for trying to reach out with these polls, but I will criticize their methods. For example, they gave us next to no information on what these spells will look like, if implemented. Would some be appropriately nerfed? Would any of these spells be buffed? At what level would Wizards unlock these spells? These are all vital questions that would have great influence over someone's vote, and yet these answers were omitted from the thread!
And as I mentioned in an earlier thread, this polling method is inherently flawed. Not only is it nonrepresentational, it uses a "Winner Take All" voting system! These polls are just half hearted attempts at acquiring good press from Players, and are only the first step in the right direction.

If KingsIsle wants to gather reliable data, they should:

• Take a simple random sample of at least 1,000 active Players
• Use a Ranked Choice voting system*
• Offer desirable incentives for completing the survey
• Properly advertise such a poll through their various social channels, the launcher, email, and more
• Present defenses/explanations for each option on the survey

I wonder how answers would vary in this ideal data collection from the incredibly flawed system the Devs are using right now. Guess there's only one way to find out...



*This video explains it well:

---

The developers considering certain spells to be trainable is counter to the announcement of making the schools true to their original intent.

I couldn't agree more. For all their talk of "school identity," the Devs clearly don't have a strong grasp on it yet! Spells like Red Ghost, Thunderbird, and Steel Giant are far from aligning with their schools overarching themes, so why are these even options...?

[Mayonnaisinator]

As others have said, I don't think we should be worrying about if the 'wrong spell' is in the lead that we're doomed for all eternity. I expect that KI won't limit themselves to 1 Spell per School, plus some of these choices may highlight more important overall desires by the Players, rather than the need for a specific Spell, ie. the fact that Leafstorm is doing well shows that Players want an easily accessible low pip Life AoE, so that outcome may result in them making Rat Spin more easily obtainable.

I also think that these polls aren't the final choices since Ratbeard has said on his stream numerous times that he doesn't like deciding game choices via poll, and that they are more used for general guidance rather than concrete desicions.

I couldn't agree more. For all their talk of "school identity," the Devs clearly don't have a strong grasp on it yet! Spells like Red Ghost, Thunderbird, and Steel Giant are far from aligning with their schools overarching themes, so why are these even options...?

The devs have also expressed their intent to give Life and Death Damage bubbles in the future, so Brown Spider & Red Ghost would make more sense once those Spells have been implemented. Steel Giant does feel a bit farfetched to me, but Thunderbird could work if it was toned down a bit imo. The "Fuel" like effect is Fire's thing, so maybe just one trap would be more fitting.


As for whether or not Spells would be nerfed, I can't really imagine any of these Spells existing as trainable Spells without nerfs - they'll probably be treated with the same "audit formula" that was used back in last Summer, but hopefully they'd be treated as Lore Spells so they can be a bit stronger.


I just like the idea of more Spells in the game - more variety is always a good thing in my books.

[Eric Stormbringer]

@Eric Stormbringer

I commend the Devs for trying to reach out with these polls, but I will criticize their methods. For example, they gave us next to no information on what these spells will look like, if implemented. Would some be appropriately nerfed? Would any of these spells be buffed? At what level would Wizards unlock these spells? These are all vital questions that would have great influence over someone's vote, and yet these answers were omitted from the thread!
And as I mentioned in an earlier thread, this polling method is inherently flawed. Not only is it nonrepresentational, it uses a "Winner Take All" voting system! These polls are just half hearted attempts at acquiring good press from Players, and are only the first step in the right direction.

If KingsIsle wants to gather reliable data, they should:

• Take a simple random sample of at least 1,000 active Players
• Use a Ranked Choice voting system*
• Offer desirable incentives for completing the survey
• Properly advertise such a poll through their various social channels, the launcher, email, and more
• Present defenses/explanations for each option on the survey

I wonder how answers would vary in this ideal data collection from the incredibly flawed system the Devs are using right now. Guess there's only one way to find out...



*This video explains it well:

---

I couldn't agree more. For all their talk of "school identity," the Devs clearly don't have a strong grasp on it yet! Spells like Red Ghost, Thunderbird, and Steel Giant are far from aligning with their schools overarching themes, so why are these even options...?

Your ideas for voting are some of the best I've seen. You should submit them to the Devs via twitter. As to the spells- the reason they had that list is because it was literally player created as attested to in the above tweet.