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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
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    Thread: Mutate Cards


    1. #11
      KieranCaster's Avatar
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      Re: Mutate Cards

      Quote Originally Posted by albak11 View Post
      I'm so with you on the training to Mino for the mutate. I have two level 60 death wizards, will never level further as they were for PvP only, that are sitting on 250 premade cards each ...
      Please @Sparck - we need the ban on mutate spells for PvP reversed.
      Me too... a have about 200 Death Minotaur on my 50 death and 50 Fire. (On the Fire, Minotaur comes out of nowhere in tourneys)

      I still have a few that were enchanted by Gargantuan and Colossal, before that hole was plugged too.

      Name:  Death Mino enchant.PNG
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    2. #12
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Thumbs down Re: Mutate Cards

      @albak11 @Robobot1747

      Do you remember last year, when KingsIsle released a bugged Sinbad Pack Wand that had Death damage? Several days after the Pack was released, it was proclaimed a bug and removed from the Pack. In short, the community went berserk- and rightfully so. They had specifically paid for this item, only for KingsIsle to out of the blue claim it was 'unintended' and remove it from the game.
      Its like if you were at a restaurant and ordered the salmon steak- only for the chef to come out, shove his hands down your throat and forcefully pull it back up because it wasn't seasoned properly. The only difference between this analogy and real life is that KingsIsle can legally screw us over like this- if a chef tried to do that, they'd be clapped in irons in no time!


      Personally, I find it more than unsettling that KingsIsle reserves the right to deactivate my account at any time, for any reason- even for the reason of having no reason at all! I have invested hundreds of dollars into this game over the years, but despite this I have no rights to my account? Not even a smidge or sense of ownership...? This is why KingsIsle is being compared to a despotic government- because we have no rights!
      And to think that this game is intended for children...


      Nerfs may be required at times to ensure the longevity of this game (Ha! KingsIsle being concerned about longevity- poor mobile games and Pirate101), but these nerfs should never come at the cost of disenfranchising us. As I mentioned earlier, a possible solution to this whole debacle is for KingsIsle to give us all a free training point reset, or to revert these unfounded changes. Advocating against our digital rights won't get us anywhere but cheated on and shortchanged though.



      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back."
      -Cosmos



    3. #13
      Robobot1747's Avatar
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      Re: Mutate Cards

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      @albak11 @Robobot1747

      Do you remember last year, when KingsIsle released a bugged Sinbad Pack Wand that had Death damage? Several days after the Pack was released, it was proclaimed a bug and removed from the Pack. In short, the community went berserk- and rightfully so. They had specifically paid for this item, only for KingsIsle to out of the blue claim it was 'unintended' and remove it from the game.
      Its like if you were at a restaurant and ordered the salmon steak- only for the chef to come out, shove his hands down your throat and forcefully pull it back up because it wasn't seasoned properly. The only difference between this analogy and real life is that KingsIsle can legally screw us over like this- if a chef tried to do that, they'd be clapped in irons in no time!


      Personally, I find it more than unsettling that KingsIsle reserves the right to deactivate my account at any time, for any reason- even for the reason of having no reason at all! I have invested hundreds of dollars into this game over the years, but despite this I have no rights to my account? Not even a smidge or sense of ownership...? This is why KingsIsle is being compared to a despotic government- because we have no rights!
      And to think that this game is intended for children...


      Nerfs may be required at times to ensure the longevity of this game (Ha! KingsIsle being concerned about longevity- poor mobile games and Pirate101), but these nerfs should never come at the cost of disenfranchising us. As I mentioned earlier, a possible solution to this whole debacle is for KingsIsle to give us all a free training point reset, or to revert these unfounded changes. Advocating against our digital rights won't get us anywhere but cheated on and shortchanged though.


      That's funny, because to my knowledge those wands still exist in the game. You just can't get any more.
      The chef analogy is bad. Eating a poorly seasoned steak doesn't affect anyone but you. Overpowered items/spells do.
      Well, you're going to be unsettled for literally any game you have an account in, because that's pretty standard "you can't sue us" TOS wording.
      I don't have a problem with a free TP reset or reverting the changes for mutates. I fail to see how saying that sometimes stuff needs a nerf goes against your nonexistent rights.
      "Fire can be quenched. Storms can dissipate. Myths can simply be forgotten. But Death... Death is constant. Death has existed long before you came to be and it will exist long after it takes you."

    4. #14
        richardDkht is offline Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Mutate Cards

      @albak11

      If you expect an answer to that post, rewrite documenting, it make no sense to discuss on thin air. AND, no "duding".

      Quote Originally Posted by albak11 View Post
      Moving onto what I have highlighted from your post, there has never been a time that these statements have not been in KI ToU - under heading ACCOUNTS:
      "PLEASE NOTE: YOU DO NOT OWN THE ACCOUNT YOU USE TO ACCESS THE SITE, AND YOU DO NOT OWN ANY DATA OR VIRTUAL ASSETS/CURRENCY THE COMPANY STORES ON ITS SERVERS RELATED TO THE ACCOUNT. You have no ownership interest in any virtual items or virtual currency that may be associated with the account from time-to-time."

      KI's "right to take, use, or do whatever else with it" is far from limited. They make this clear in the ToU, also under accounts:
      "We may suspend or terminate your account for any failure to comply with these Terms of Use, any terms related to any service offered through the Site or for any reason whatsoever, or for no reason."

      This is pretty clear, we do not own our accounts, nor any items whatsoever in the game, KI does. We pay for the opportunity to play a game. If KI so chooses, they may suspend or terminate our playing the game, and do not have to justify the suspension or termination.

      I believe the best way to have voices heard for change is to substantiate the reason you are wanting to see the change, solicit others that are in agreement of that requested change, and present it for consideration to those with the ability to make the change. In my opinion, comparing those with the ability to consider your request as "despotic governors" will not gain the cooperation you are seeking.

      I'll answer to this.

      First of all, if you study law cases and suits, you will discover the huge amount of times where a company wrote something in their ToS that a judge invalidated because it created a disbalance between the rights of the parties. It is called a vexatious "item" (clause, paragraph, document etc..).

      It is not because you write something that is forced upon somebody else that their basic rights can be denied.

      But that is just a detail.

      What I said is that, no matter what you sell, if you want people to TRUST you, you must abide to the situation as I described it.

      And, although you may find it shocking to compare this to totalitarian or despotic government, I'm afraid to say that it is a perfect parallel.

      If you kill an ant, you have removed a life, if you kill a human you also did the same. Of course human rights do not protect the ants, but in term of simple maths, it's -1 life on the planet in both situations.

      ("oh, dear, are you saying a human life is as worthless as an ant, you disgusting person!!" etc.. keep that for yourself, it was an example.)

      Open minds are required to understand how the world and the universe evolve, and very often people are not into that - they just say "this can not apply to that".

      Well, in a cold, distant way, this and that work on a same principle...

      The CAUSES will be the same, although the EFFECTS will be different - more or less important depending on circumstances.

      Also, to your last paragraph: in a submissive situation, you bend to the king or god and humbly ask them to accept your request.

      In a trade situation, you will be better off keeping in mind that THEY need you as much or even more than YOU need them. And then fair negotiation is the KEY to a successful situation.

      So courtesy must go both ways.

      I do not hesitate to defend KI when they are unrightly accused (read my posts from a couple years ago, or from 9 years ago on the official forums);

      but when they behave as they did in the last 18 months or so, and cut off any possibility to create a mid- or long-term strategy because they simply think "it's the best possible way", make the game linear, and do not consult the players (or barely one or two on twitter!!) before making deep impact changes, then yes, I say that they are throwing the game as we knew it, and making a big mess of it. Not making it as a request not to do it, but simply stating a fact.

      You say to an intelligent person when they make something silly, for they will understand and think about it;
      and you say to a silly person when they make something intelligent, for they will like the praise and will try to earn it again;
      but never say to the silly that what they did was silly, they will never understand;
      and don't waste time to say to the intelligent that what they did was smart, for they already know.
      " I can solve any issues in the world, except those originated by human stupidity"
      ".. that leaves out A LOT.."

    5. #15
      albak11's Avatar
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      Re: Mutate Cards

      Quote Originally Posted by richardDkht View Post
      @albak11
      If you expect an answer to that post, rewrite documenting, it make no sense to discuss on thin air. AND, no "duding".
      Thank you, it appears you did respond to that post, and within my post there is not a single instance of the term "dude" used.
      I'll answer to this.
      First of all, if you study law cases and suits, you will discover the huge amount of times where a company wrote something in their ToS that a judge invalidated because it created a disbalance between the rights of the parties. It is called a vexatious "item" (clause, paragraph, document etc..). I am familiar with the term.
      It is not because you write something that is forced upon somebody else that their basic rights can be denied. Without doubt.
      But that is just a detail.
      What I said is that, no matter what you sell, if you want people to TRUST you, you must abide to the situation as I described it. There is nowhere within my post that I argue that point.
      And, although you may find it shocking to compare this to totalitarian or despotic government, I'm afraid to say that it is a perfect parallel. Again, I did not argue the comparison/parallel; my statement was made on how you approach those that have the ability to make the change you are seeking.
      If you kill an ant, you have removed a life, if you kill a human you also did the same. Of course human rights do not protect the ants, but in term of simple maths, it's -1 life on the planet in both situations.
      ("oh, dear, are you saying a human life is as worthless as an ant, you disgusting person!!" etc.. keep that for yourself, it was an example.). A rational, educated person can easily understand this, but thank you for the clarification.
      Open minds are required to understand how the world and the universe evolve, and very often people are not into that - they just say "this can not apply to that".
      Well, in a cold, distant way, this and that work on a same principle...
      The CAUSES will be the same, although the EFFECTS will be different - more or less important depending on circumstances. No question on this, absolutely agree.
      Also, to your last paragraph: in a submissive situation, you bend to the king or god and humbly ask them to accept your request. That is not what I presented - not a humble request - what was stated is a statistically based request. I stated to garner data, gain support of those with like mind for the change, and then collectively present a valid argument for change to those that can make the change.
      In a trade situation, you will be better off keeping in mind that THEY need you as much or even more than YOU need them. And then fair negotiation is the KEY to a successful situation. Again, in business, I am in total agreement with this.
      So courtesy must go both ways. This should apply to everything in life.
      I do not hesitate to defend KI when they are unrightly accused (read my posts from a couple years ago, or from 9 years ago on the official forums); but when they behave as they did in the last 18 months or so, and cut off any possibility to create a mid- or long-term strategy because they simply think "it's the best possible way", make the game linear, and do not consult the players (or barely one or two on twitter!!) before making deep impact changes, then yes, I say that they are throwing the game as we knew it, and making a big mess of it. Not making it as a request not to do it, but simply stating a fact. I believe that if you research the posts you refer to, you will find on many occasions where I posted within those agreeing on your points.
      You say to an intelligent person when they make something silly, for they will understand and think about it;
      and you say to a silly person when they make something intelligent, for they will like the praise and will try to earn it again;
      but never say to the silly that what they did was silly, they will never understand;
      and don't waste time to say to the intelligent that what they did was smart, for they already know.
      Comments in bold. As I am confident you noticed within my post, as well as a post made after, I am in complete agreement that the decision to remove mutate cards in PvP should be reversed; nowhere within the thread have I disagreed with the purpose of the thread. The entire purpose of my comment to you was as a reminder that KI does have the right, based on their ToU, to handle situations as they wish, and they do not have to justify the decisions. I never stated that I was in agreement of that clause within the ToU, however, it is a standard clause within the gaming industry.

      Have a great weekend & holiday season.
      Last edited by albak11; 11-27-20 at 5:57:52 PM.

    6. #16
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      Re: Mutate Cards

      Almost none of these changes were needed, again KI has made the changes that have hurt the game, and I see that a lot of players, seasoned players are just not pvping.
      KI CANNOT continue to have their employees that don't play the game, make design changes, period.

      I remember back around 2014, two players were having a discussion on the main board, and it would have done KI well to go back and read the old write-up.I don't remember exactly, but one was called "Darth" and the other "Joseph". They discussed the bond that players had with KI, and what would break the bond, which KI has now done for many. Yes, KI has the legal right to change the game as wanted, but if they break the players trust, take what they have purchased, or spent a lot of time on, they will finally quit.Part of the discussion revolved around two key points, Resist and Critical.

      The conversation discussed limits to Resist, that was "different" for each school. The removal of Critical or making it very rare or only in PVE.
      Finally, they discussed the Turn base, making it as it was finally change too. The last discussion was on Shadow pips, and finally they have changed as this discussion asked for 6 years ago. If KI had made the resist and Critical changes early, none of the mistakes would have been added.

      Maybe KI should learn from their mistakes, and go back and read some old threads. Sad that again, they have messed with what was working, to make it less playable, just to appease those that can't figure out how to play the game. As a misc note, "richardDkht" I agree with you, KI is all about money, but this time I think they just had no idea what they were doing. Same thing that has happened over and over, the past 6 years. They really don't understand the game, since one of the original designers/writers left. I really believe that, just based on the horrible changes that they have made.

      You might wonder why the rant, it's because I am a Professional Programmer. I know when people take the easy way out with a patch on the code, instead of fixing it correctly. This offends me when I see it, as it's just bandage on a wound that needs stitches. This is exactly what KI has done for six to seven years, instead of removing Jades from PVP, etc. The people that decided on the changes are the people putting on the bandages, which is just flat out wrong and cheap.
      Last edited by Veracity3; 12-1-20 at 10:18:23 PM. Reason: adding a correct ending.

    7. #17
      ChoGath's Avatar
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      Re: Mutate Cards

      Quote Originally Posted by albak11 View Post
      I'm so with you on the training to Mino for the mutate. I have two level 60 death wizards, will never level further as they were for PvP only, that are sitting on 250 premade cards each ...
      Please @Sparck - we need the ban on mutate spells for PvP reversed.
      I trained fire elf & phoenix for the storm mutations. It's not like Storm wizards have been running wild in the arena, so I don't see where the mutates are horribly overpowered.

      If KI is looking for diversity of strategy beyond the dominate ice/Life stuff, I'd think that mutates would be allowed & encouraged.

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