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[Happy Fun Ball]

Good stuff eric. Just curious after reading the intent of the new heal vs block mechanic. Will this effect deaths drain spells. Having a death wiz, I've been working on both improving the characters critical/ damage. Which in turn increases the heal return. But as death is often called upon for there spells doing damage to themself..i.e. dark pact, sacrifice, juju etc. For this reason I also try to obtain as much resist and block to death. Nothing worse than killing yourself with a critical dark pact.

To that end, if this heal to block mechanic is going to effect drains. It would in effect destroy the school of death in my eyes.

I have seen no changes to drains other than the damage due to criticals. I do a certain amount of damage and get 50% back in every case, except ghoul and steal health, which are a higher ratio.

As for dark pact, I have never seen it critical in all of the times I've use it. The only thing that does that is sacrifice. Of course, those self hit spells need to to a set damage without using blades (similar to pvp bad juju, but much less damage), because dark pact is only really useful for every class except the one it was designed for.

[Dylan Windwalker]

If only it were possible to really construct a chart to combine all the calculations into one or multiple images.

Perhaps one that shows the average critical block of enemies based on their rank (including Elite enemies such as bosses) based on their school (or multiple schools). I'm guessing one will have to plug in their critical rating and the stats of their enemy based on that chart to devise the exact multiplier of their attacks right? I feel like a lot of people are going to be stressed out because their multiplier or critical chance is going to be constantly changing, while it is currently one set percentage in live realm that a player only has to remember once. All of these calculations are making me tired

[Kingurz]

In PvP, "X Pip" spells are a risk- you forfeit all of your gained momentum and hope for the best. When I use Judgement in the Arena, I aim to kill- otherwise I'll be left with no Pips and an opponent who's ready to hit. With Ice and Frozen Armor, it is slightly different- if you're playing Support you won't feel that underlying pressure to be able to hit. However, you still need Pips!
If you carry a Life mastery, you'll need Pips for heals, making Ice Absorbs irrelevant. And even if you are going full Jade, X Pip Absorbs aren't worth it! The Pip economy of the Arena dictates this.

A max, 14 Pip Frozen Armor will only absorb a total of 2,450 damage (Assuming you get lucky with your Power Pips, which if you're Jading is highly unlikely). Your opponent(s) can then cast a zero Pip Pierce, a three Pip Shatter, a two Pip Steal ward, a 6(4*) Pip Earthquake, a 6* Pip Mystic Colossus, or have a pet maycast Shatter for free. You will always have lost more Pips than your opponent, making this spell a total waste of Pips.

Another example of the "Pip economy" in action is Bubbles. Our regular damage bubbles only cost 2 Pips. Our special Pierce/Critical Bubbles cost 4 Pips. Say I cast Katabtic Wind- my opponent can then spend two pips less and replace my Bubble- leaving me down on Pips and tempo.


This is why Towers, Legion Shields and set shields are so much better. Legion Shield is not a selfish spell, and allows you to ward your entire team in one round! Set shields are fantastic as they not only force your opponent(s) to either remove them through utility or through their school specific hit, but they help nullify any blades your enemies(s) have as well! And Tower Shields are to be preferred as they cut the incoming damage by half for zero Pips- usually forcing duelists to remove them before striking.
One last thing to note- if a Wizard is Jading, they should never rack up 14 Pips! Jading isn't just about zero Pip shields, its about spamming Smokescreen, stunning, spamming (Virulent)Plague, healing, and more. Thus, you won't have the Pips you need to effectively cast Ice Absorbs.



*They can cast Earthquake at 4 Pips if they have an Aftershock TC. Mystic Colossus is technically 6 Pips and a Shadow Pip, but is still a strong shield breaking spell. I did not mention Elucidate and Simplify as those are incredibly rare, retired TC nobody in their right mind would use up

Every one of your examples were related to PvP, yet I'm discussing the changes of Taunt and how that helps bolster the viability of Absorbs. The clear notion of how KI is attempting to better define school identity and how that fits. I was also simply pointing out that Ice could technically still achieve the highest HP in the game......regardless if it is a sound strategy for PvP or not. We are talking past each other.

If the conversation is only about PvP, I will bow out, since PvP is full of what ifs, "all other schools are better", nerf "X" school, grass is always greener, never satisfied data points. Clearly you have to attack in PvP to win, especially solo....even more so now with the Diego changes....and not what I was referring to, but it is hyperbole to suggest that having the second highest health in the game is some how going to make Ice suddenly the worst school in PvP.

Instead of looking at all the negatives or all the ways to keep absorbs useless, maybe look for positive applications or suggestions for the devs to improve absorbs or tanking in general which IS a direction KI seems to be taking (like offering better/more ways to protect that 14 pip investment)......instead of insisting on the old ways and the direction the devs are moving away from for Ice (high health, high resist and high damage from blades).

Eric has already laid out the school identity the same way I see it (just like the majority of MMOs). In those games tanks simply do not DPS, but focus on getting the attention of the enemies while relying on another class to heal them efficiently and buy time so others can attack/DPS fast enough.

@Kingurz You really think that tank wizards don't need to hit? Every school needs to hit, unless you have someone else to carry you through all your quests. As for the new Taunt mechanic, we do not even know if it's going to ban AoE attacks while activated, and if it doesn't, it's almost as useless as the taunts we have now.

In PvE/questing on a team...yes, I do think Ice wizards don't need to hit.....and I typically don't with my max Ice wizard.

Your telling me that when the team is low on life against Malistaire in Darkmoor everyone rejoices when the Life wizard blades and hits instead of healing? That is much different than my experience, in fact, if a Life wizard so much as wand hits eye brows raise.

A taunt that redirects AOE attacks is a Beguile...and I doubt KI will let the Taunt mechanic do that, nor should it. It is designed to make opponents either force their strongest attacks (single target spells) on a specified target (the one that CAN take the damage), force the lower damaging AOE spell or simply disrupt combos and strategies. If an enemy is more likely to use an AOE instead of single target, the Ice wizard is better off casting team shields with their pips instead shielding themselves.

While there really isn't a change in how Taunt works in PvE, you're telling me in PvP Taunt has had zero improvement?...when you can now force an opposing team from casting weakness/juju/dispel against the hitter on your team (or disrupt any other non-hit strategies)?

[JaredSpellFrost]

@Kingurz

The fact still stands that your standard shields- set, Legion, and Tower- outperform Absorbs in PvP and PvE. The Pip economy is still existent in PvE, but to be fair it does have different standards and constraints than it does in the Arena. And as I said before, any Ice Wizard who is playing support will never rack up enough pips to cast Ice Absorbs when they are most effective.
Lets say an enemy casts Orthrus that deals a flat 5,000 damage. A max Frozen Armor will tank 2,450 of that, wounding you for 2,550 damage. A Tower Shield, on the other hand, will block half of that, wounding you for only 2,500 damage. Better yet, a 1 Pip Legion Shield will reduce damage taken for your entire team, whilst not wasting any tempo.

"Instead of looking at all the negatives or all the ways to keep absorbs useless, maybe look for positive applications or suggestions for the devs to improve absorbs..."

Why should we be looking for solutions to a problem the Devs have unnecessarily caused? The issue of Life and Ice's health should never have arisen in the first place! Yes, Absorbs could use an update, but they shouldn't be a "fix" to a nonissue conjured up by KingsIsle. Its almost like existent problems aren't enough for KingsIsle- they now have to create new disputes nowadays to remain entertained!

Eric has already laid out the school identity the same way I see it (just like the majority of MMOs). In those games tanks simply do not DPS, but focus on getting the attention of the enemies while relying on another class to heal them efficiently and buy time so others can attack/DPS fast enough.

Taunt redirects enemies attacks onto Ice- therefore, they need the largest health pool to tank these hits. Pacify redirects damage onto Life's companions, therefore they deserve less health but learn heals to bring their team back up to full. Just how heals are Life's identity, max health and Resist are a Thaumaturge's identity. These concepts have been intertwined into the game since the very beginning, so why is KingsIsle suddenly all for uprooting these core concepts? Also, Ice gets the highest damage from Blades to counteract their low damage. This is a universal truth for all schools except Balance- the larger the base damage, the weaker the blades/traps/buffs.

[Eric Stormbringer]

@Kingurz

The fact still stands that your standard shields- set, Legion, and Tower- outperform Absorbs in PvP and PvE. The Pip economy is still existent in PvE, but to be fair it does have different standards and constraints than it does in the Arena. And as I said before, any Ice Wizard who is playing support will never rack up enough pips to cast Ice Absorbs when they are most effective.
Lets say an enemy casts Orthrus that deals a flat 5,000 damage. A max Frozen Armor will tank 2,450 of that, wounding you for 2,550 damage. A Tower Shield, on the other hand, will block half of that, wounding you for only 2,500 damage. Better yet, a 1 Pip Legion Shield will reduce damage taken for your entire team, whilst not wasting any tempo.




Why should we be looking for solutions to a problem the Devs have unnecessarily caused? The issue of Life and Ice's health should never have arisen in the first place! Yes, Absorbs could use an update, but they shouldn't be a "fix" to a nonissue conjured up by KingsIsle. Its almost like existent problems aren't enough for KingsIsle- they now have to create new disputes nowadays to remain entertained!





Taunt redirects enemies attacks onto Ice- therefore, they need the largest health pool to tank these hits. Pacify redirects damage onto Life's companions, therefore they deserve less health but learn heals to bring their team back up to full. Just how heals are Life's identity, max health and Resist are a Thaumaturge's identity. These concepts have been intertwined into the game since the very beginning, so why is KingsIsle suddenly all for uprooting these core concepts? Also, Ice gets the highest damage from Blades to counteract their low damage. This is a universal truth for all schools except Balance- the larger the base damage, the weaker the blades/traps/buffs.

The old conventions are moot. We've seen this before and it's being highlighted more and more as the Devs audit the game. Life now has a 4 pip AoE, Balance has a Balance specific damage bubble, Fire has more dmg on gear than Storm, Life has more HP than Ice. Critical and Block is completely changed, Resist is going to be completely changed etc. The Devs are revamping old conventions so saying that these changes don't follow conventions that the Devs are explicitly not following doesn't really add anything to the argument.

Now to the specifics of your argument: as Patrick said earlier- resist scales way better in terms of "tankiness" than hp- at least in the current game. If they are making Life the hp school then absorbs should be a life specific utility. In my view that means retiring the x pip Ice absorbs and replacing them with some other spell. As you correctly noted, if Ice's new intended role is to be a meat shield for the team using taunts, then it stands to reason it needs some way to protect teammates from AoEs. Perhaps a stronger and/or cheaper version of legion shield that only triggers if hit by an AoE. Or perhaps a way to force an AoE to transform into a single target hit.

I think this fits better than trying to make taunt serve too many purposes at once. Give Ice the supporting tools it needs to succeed at this new aspect of tanking.