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  • Results 1 to 6 of 6

    Thread: Pet May Casts


    1. #1
        Mayonnaisinator is offline Wiki Master
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      Pet May Casts

      While I've been working on updating Item Cards to use the variant numbers, I realised that Pet May Cast Talents weren't using them.

      I expect that this has been for good reason though, as unlike Item May Casts, Pets don't display the actual Card they are casting, just the name. Therefore, there isn't an Image associated with the May Cast, and the exact effects such as Pip Cost and Accuracy are unknown. (Although those two are irrelevant to May Casts, which don't use Pips, and seem to have 100% Accuracy).

      However, I think by doing this, there is some information lost. For example, if you don't know the name of the May Cast Balefrost Talent, it's difficult to find it since it will not be listed on the ItemCard:Balefrost page, and the Talent name, PetAbility:Biting Cold is different enough that it might make searches more difficult.

      So I'd like feedback on whether or not it's an acceptable idea to start adding ItemCard variant numbers to Pet May Casts, for whatever the most accurate ItemCard is. For example, PetAbility:Feeling Feint matches up pretty well with the ItemCard already present on the ItemCard:Mass Feint page, so it could use variant number 0 (which I already did, and is what sparked this idea). When I say "most accurate" I mean that you could ignore Pip Cost and Accuracy, since those fields are effectively meaningless on May Casts.

      The problem will mainly lie if the May Cast casts a variant of a Spell with different effects from any other variant, or if it casts a Spell unique to it (see PetAbility:Pet Rescue, which casts the Revitalize Spell, which doesn't exist anywhere else!). In these cases, the section might have to go without an Image, or perhaps a custom made image following the guidelines of this post.

      I understand that the lack of certainty about what Spell is exactly being cast may not fit in with the wiki's usually tight policy on entering 100% known information, but I feel this is suitable since there is no alternative. Unless KI changes how Pet May Casts are displayed and makes them look like Item May Casts, there is no way whatsoever to see what Spells are cast in-game, so this is the only way to add this information.

      Finally, this doesn't even need any new template work, since the ItemCard template already accepts Pet May Casts as seen on the Mass Feint page above, it just wasn't really being used anywhere.

    2. #2
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      Re: Pet May Casts

      My intuition is to still stick to Wiki Policy and disallow guesses or assumptions (however appropriate) in choosing a specific Item Card Variant for these talents to be listed under..

      That said, I think it would be appropriate to have a section of Item Card pages that display something akin to "Pet Talents Which May Cast a Version of this Card:", which could be displayed somewhere beside or beneath the Item Card Animation.

      That's just my intuition, though. Others can weigh in on what they think is appropriate, perhaps I'm being too much of a stickler.
      "Who is them all, but individual mes following the path of themselves and others" - Pyro
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    3. #3
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      Re: Pet May Casts

      Quote Originally Posted by Zane View Post
      My intuition is to still stick to Wiki Policy and disallow guesses or assumptions (however appropriate) in choosing a specific Item Card Variant for these talents to be listed under..

      That said, I think it would be appropriate to have a section of Item Card pages that display something akin to "Pet Talents Which May Cast a Version of this Card:", which could be displayed somewhere beside or beneath the Item Card Animation.

      That's just my intuition, though. Others can weigh in on what they think is appropriate, perhaps I'm being too much of a stickler.
      nope

    4. #4
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      Re: Pet May Casts

      Quote Originally Posted by Mayonnaisinator View Post

      So I'd like feedback on whether or not it's an acceptable idea to start adding ItemCard variant numbers to Pet May Casts, for whatever the most accurate ItemCard is. For example, PetAbility:Feeling Feint matches up pretty well with the ItemCard already present on the ItemCard:Mass Feint page, so it could use variant number 0 (which I already did, and is what sparked this idea). When I say "most accurate" I mean that you could ignore Pip Cost and Accuracy, since those fields are effectively meaningless on May Casts.

      The problem will mainly lie if the May Cast casts a variant of a Spell with different effects from any other variant, or if it casts a Spell unique to it (see PetAbility:Pet Rescue, which casts the Revitalize Spell, which doesn't exist anywhere else!). In these cases, the section might have to go without an Image, or perhaps a custom made image following the guidelines of this post.

      I understand that the lack of certainty about what Spell is exactly being cast may not fit in with the wiki's usually tight policy on entering 100% known information, but I feel this is suitable since there is no alternative. Unless KI changes how Pet May Casts are displayed and makes them look like Item May Casts, there is no way whatsoever to see what Spells are cast in-game, so this is the only way to add this information.
      Quote Originally Posted by Zane View Post
      My intuition is to still stick to Wiki Policy and disallow guesses or assumptions (however appropriate) in choosing a specific Item Card Variant for these talents to be listed under..

      That said, I think it would be appropriate to have a section of Item Card pages that display something akin to "Pet Talents Which May Cast a Version of this Card:", which could be displayed somewhere beside or beneath the Item Card Animation.

      That's just my intuition, though. Others can weigh in on what they think is appropriate, perhaps I'm being too much of a stickler.
      Thanks Mayo for posting your questions on this. While your argument sounds logical, I agree with Zane's line of thinking. I highlighted the key points that caught my attention in both posts.

      Zane's alternative sounds like the way to go from my point of view, unless the Wiki Rules and Guidelines About Content are rewritten.

      AluraMist
      Dare to catch your best dreams and live them with eyes wide open. Sweet dreams always.
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    5. #5
        Mayonnaisinator is offline Wiki Master
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      Re: Pet May Casts

      Thanks for the feedback on this.

      As surprising as it may seem given the post I wrote above, I do agree with Zane and Alura that my suggestion probably isn't the best approach given the Wiki guidelines and precedent regarding certainty about in-game information. I wrote this post mainly with the intention of bringing some discussion up about the topic.

      I do like Zane's idea of having a note saying that a version of the Spell is cast by a May Cast Talent, since that fulfills the issue I was experiencing where the ItemCard pages made no mention at all of any Pet May Casts.

      Perhaps the note could describe the effect of the May Cast as well? For example, for PetAbility:Ardent Amplifier it may be relevant information to note down on the ItemCard page the strength and duration of the Amplify aura that is cast, or perhaps the amount of Health restored by the Fairy Spell cast by PetAbility:Fairy Friend.

      There is still the tricky case of PetAbility:Pet Rescue, but I don't have any ideas for that other than hope that the Revitalize Spell is made into an ItemCard someday.

    6. #6
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      Re: Pet May Casts

      My line of thinking for this one is also in line with Alura's and Zane's. While I see the benefit of elaborating on exactly what version of the Spell is cast by each May-Cast Talent, I think that would fit well onto the Pet Ability pages themselves. Perhaps a " | maycasteffects " field would be appropriate for that; we could make it even simpler for editors and have " | maycastdamage ", "| maycasthealth ", " | maycastpercent ", etc, but for some more complicated Spells, I think that sticking with a singular field would be best, should we do that.

      As far as Pet Rescue goes... that's a tricky one that I'm still sitting on and thinking about.

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