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    1. #31
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Lightbulb Re: Upcoming Critical and Block changes

      Quote Originally Posted by lethargy101 View Post
      If the game is too continue it should honor agreements it made whether explicitly said or not. They took everyone's money knowing what they were selling. I invested in energy gear to have something to help me for the lifetime of the game. I invested in Jade gear to help me in stupidly tough dungeons. If they want to make better items that's fine but nerfing items I paid for is not right or moral.
      I agree with you on this- that our current gear should not be nerfed. KingsIsle needs to ensure that the effectiveness of our Crowns gear remains the same in this changing system. But a stats update is needed to keep the game sustainable, and to fight back the massive power creep problems we are seeing.

      The current all or nothing Critical system is incredibly imbalanced- Block is completely disregarded, and from what I can tell this proposed system (With a few tweaks) could work out. These unpleasant, albeit necessary changes are coming no matter what we do, so rather than try to stop them completely I say we focus our energy on ensuring we don't get shortchanged!

      Last edited by JaredSpellFrost; 10-16-20 at 4:41:15 PM.

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    2. #32
      Tanner Hex's Avatar
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      Re: Upcoming Critical and Block changes

      Quote Originally Posted by ValdusWildheart View Post
      It's not *just* nostalgia though. When you've sunk hundreds (thousands?) of hours into perfecting your gear a big change like this is a bitter pill to swallow. I don't mind at the moment since I haven't been playing all my gear is old and moth eaten. Yes, I agree it is likely a good change for the future playability of the game. But it likely will mean a lot more farming and packs.

      I just hope whatever they do this time gets them set for a long time vs. a partially thought through change like prior critical reset was. I don't think anyone wants to have this conversation again in another couple of years.
      This is one of my biggest concerns, especially regarding pets. I just hope that the stat-giving pets I've put a bunch of effort into raising feel about as useful as they are before these changes get implemented. They shot down the idea of pet talent re-rolls in the last KI live, so it doesn't sound like there are any plans to make getting the talents you want any easier either.
      Last edited by Tanner Hex; 10-16-20 at 5:00:36 PM.

    3. #33
      Patrick FairyStalker's Avatar
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      Re: Upcoming Critical and Block changes

      Quote Originally Posted by lethargy101 View Post
      No weakening stats only to make you farm/buy packs is not the way forward. It's great for KI but not players. I'm aware some players have 170% damage and 100% critical but I certainly don't. The wizards I have with 100% critical are more balanced to have reasonable resist and around 100% Damage. I spent money, a lot of money to get those wands as an investment for my wizards and my fun. We know this is only about PVP, all changes of this nature are for that community. PVE doesn't need any changes in this regard. The gear doesn't have to really get better part from say a ring that gives enough extra critical to keep critical at 100%. If anything they could add stats like block rating or stun resist to equivalents of the darkmoor robe and hat(or Dragoons etc)to make improvements and not raising other stats.
      I know you will disagree with this, but this is very unfavorable for long-term longevity. If the only improvement from level 130 to 140 to 150, etc is just a simple critical boost, then there is no change in stats/gear over time. Improving block and stun resist is just a band-aid to a short-term problem. Like critical, pip chance, and accuracy, eventually these will all reach 100% as well.

      If the game is too continue it should honor agreements it made whether explicitly said or not. They took everyone's money knowing what they were selling. I invested in energy gear to have something to help me for the lifetime of the game. I invested in Jade gear to help me in stupidly tough dungeons. If they want to make better items that's fine but nerfing items I paid for is not right or moral.
      Fair enough. But I still think it's too early to tell. Getting to 100% resist may be near impossible, but jade gear might still get you easily to 80%+ resist. They haven't mentioned how they will handle pierce, however.

      Regardless, someone with perfect jade/resist gear will still have the highest resist possible. They will still be the best possible tank. Whether that's "enough" for the casual player in tough dungeons is to be determined.

    4. #34
      Happy Fun Ball's Avatar
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      Re: Upcoming Critical and Block changes

      As long as they nerf the monsters as well. We really don't want to see any more wild bolts doing 4,200 damage because we can't block anything anymore since Polaris.

    5. #35
      Kingurz's Avatar
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      Re: Upcoming Critical and Block changes

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      I agree with you on this- that our current gear should not be nerfed. KingsIsle needs to ensure that the effectiveness of our Crowns gear remains the same in this changing system. But a stats update is needed to keep the game sustainable, and to fight back the massive power creep problems we are seeing.

      I have no doubt that the gear will take a nerf (just like most of the spells did during the spell rebalance).....however, as KI has explained it before is that you still keep your power from hard earned dropped gear or bought gear. In other words, yes it gets a nerf, but those highly desirable gear pieces still remain highly desirable (Malistaire for example will still want to be obtained at 100)......just not as good compared to itself in post 2020 stats.
      Last edited by Kingurz; 10-16-20 at 7:06:48 PM.

    6. #36
      goldendragon18's Avatar
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      Re: Upcoming Critical and Block changes

      Quote Originally Posted by lethargy101 View Post
      No weakening stats only to make you farm/buy packs is not the way forward. It's great for KI but not players. I'm aware some players have 170% damage and 100% critical but I certainly don't. The wizards I have with 100% critical are more balanced to have reasonable resist and around 100% Damage. I spent money, a lot of money to get those wands as an investment for my wizards and my fun. We know this is only about PVP, all changes of this nature are for that community. PVE doesn't need any changes in this regard. The gear doesn't have to really get better part from say a ring that gives enough extra critical to keep critical at 100%. If anything they could add stats like block rating or stun resist to equivalents of the darkmoor robe and hat(or Dragoons etc)to make improvements and not raising other stats.

      If the game is too continue it should honor agreements it made whether explicitly said or not. They took everyone's money knowing what they were selling. I invested in energy gear to have something to help me for the lifetime of the game. I invested in Jade gear to help me in stupidly tough dungeons. If they want to make better items that's fine but nerfing items I paid for is not right or moral.
      @goldendragon18 my wiz that have 100% crit always crit but sometime they block, sometimes not. Heals work every time. I don't farm for a lot of upgrades just go for good enough. Darkmoor/Exalted duel hat and robe and critical boots from a pack, assuming I have a guitar wand for that wiz then work on a pet and add jewels from questing/gardening so I have 100%
      I am sorry for you and others who have BOUGHT Crowns items to improve your stats. This is one thing I don't do and I am sure there are many others that can't afford to buy Crowns/Jade gear. The best I can do to improve my Energy is that I have acquired a few pieces of Energy Gear through drops in the "F.I.V.E. Boxes, But I have been fortunate enough to have pets on all of my wizards that each give an additional 45 energy on top of base energy. That with the gear gives some of my characters decent energy to be able to plant up to 100 plants at once. As for the rest of the stats, I do the best I can. Crits are far and few for now. Maybe after the update, they might be better but, I will just wait and see.
      Quote Originally Posted by Happy Fun Ball View Post
      As long as they nerf the monsters as well. We really don't want to see any more wild bolts doing 4,200 damage because we can't block anything anymore since Polaris.

      According to what I read in @Ratbeards release, if stats have to be changed, monster will be too and if I understood it right, monsters will be tweaked first. Below is a section from the release.

      PvE vs PvP Customizability


      Our approach throughout the stat rebalance has been to minimize changes that are “player-facing.” By this we mean that – as much as possible - we want the game to feel different, but not look different. This requires a little bit of extra work as we commit to rebalancing PvP – whose players by and large do want the game to feel different. For PvP players, the game should feel different but not look too different; and for PvE players, the game should feel about the same and look about the same. To this end we have three guiding principles:

      • Redesign the formulas, not the stats
      • Build formulas with customizable parameters to balance PvE vs. PvP
      • If stats must change, change mob stats before changing player stats

      An example might help illustrate this approach. Our first stat rebalance was the change to the way that shadow pips work. The formulas we created to rebalance shadow pips include several different parameters that control the pace at which the shadow gauge fills, as well as the ability to differentiate between PvP and PvE, between solo and team play, and whether or not the opposite team is human (PvP) or AI (PvE). Without requiring any new code, the Design team can increase or decrease the shadow pip rate simply by changing a couple of parameters in a configuration file – and we can change PvP independently of PvE (and vice versa). (In fact, we did just this during the Test Realm that included the rollout of the shadow gauge, increasing the rate of shadow pip gain for PvE without increasing it for PvP.)
      Last edited by goldendragon18; 10-16-20 at 7:10:04 PM.

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    7. #37
      lethargy101's Avatar
        lethargy101 is offline Grandmaster Wizard
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      Re: Upcoming Critical and Block changes

      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      I know you will disagree with this, but this is very unfavorable for long-term longevity. If the only improvement from level 130 to 140 to 150, etc is just a simple critical boost, then there is no change in stats/gear over time. Improving block and stun resist is just a band-aid to a short-term problem. Like critical, pip chance, and accuracy, eventually these will all reach 100% as well.
      I haven't changed my hat or robe in 30 levels, like many people adding a little crit to keep up with decay doesn't change anything in getting more powerful. Most people have block that's next to useless so adding sight upgrades is hardly ever going to be reliable let alone 100%, same for stun resist. I'm sure most PVE players have zero stun resist. Even if there's no upgraded gear only carbon copies of what we have now for the next 2 or 3 worlds, so what? Weakening stats just so they can make better gear is insane. Leave players stats where they are, difficulty doesn't need to be raised either just make the next arc fun. Give other things to farm for like mounts and pets, even those teleport effects.

      The thing to remember is we should be powerful after all these worlds. Frankly do we even need to raise the level cap? Sure I love the energy refills but no new levels no need to improve stats apart from slight variations in set up choices. My wizards on my 2nd account will not have 100% crit so will go for more damage, due to no crit wand.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by goldendragon18 View Post

      According to what I read in @Ratbeards release, if stats have to be changed, monster will be too and if I understood it right, monsters will be tweaked first. Below is a section from the release.

      PvE vs PvP Customizability


      Our approach throughout the stat rebalance has been to minimize changes that are “player-facing.” By this we mean that – as much as possible - we want the game to feel different, but not look different. This requires a little bit of extra work as we commit to rebalancing PvP – whose players by and large do want the game to feel different. For PvP players, the game should feel different but not look too different; and for PvE players, the game should feel about the same and look about the same. To this end we have three guiding principles:

      • Redesign the formulas, not the stats
      • Build formulas with customizable parameters to balance PvE vs. PvP
      • If stats must change, change mob stats before changing player stats

      An example might help illustrate this approach. Our first stat rebalance was the change to the way that shadow pips work. The formulas we created to rebalance shadow pips include several different parameters that control the pace at which the shadow gauge fills, as well as the ability to differentiate between PvP and PvE, between solo and team play, and whether or not the opposite team is human (PvP) or AI (PvE). Without requiring any new code, the Design team can increase or decrease the shadow pip rate simply by changing a couple of parameters in a configuration file – and we can change PvP independently of PvE (and vice versa). (In fact, we did just this during the Test Realm that included the rollout of the shadow gauge, increasing the rate of shadow pip gain for PvE without increasing it for PvP.)
      The problem is KI says things like this and the end result effects PVE negatively. Loremaster spell was only meant to be changed for PVP and now everyone has a useless Loremaster. Trust is earned and KI lies to us a lot.

    8. #38
      Eric Stormbringer's Avatar
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      Re: Upcoming Critical and Block changes

      Quote Originally Posted by lethargy101 View Post
      I haven't changed my hat or robe in 30 levels, like many people adding a little crit to keep up with decay doesn't change anything in getting more powerful. Most people have block that's next to useless so adding sight upgrades is hardly ever going to be reliable let alone 100%, same for stun resist. I'm sure most PVE players have zero stun resist. Even if there's no upgraded gear only carbon copies of what we have now for the next 2 or 3 worlds, so what? Weakening stats just so they can make better gear is insane. Leave players stats where they are, difficulty doesn't need to be raised either just make the next arc fun. Give other things to farm for like mounts and pets, even those teleport effects.

      The thing to remember is we should be powerful after all these worlds. Frankly do we even need to raise the level cap? Sure I love the energy refills but no new levels no need to improve stats apart from slight variations in set up choices. My wizards on my 2nd account will not have 100% crit so will go for more damage, due to no crit wand.

      - - - Updated - - -



      The problem is KI says things like this and the end result effects PVE negatively. Loremaster spell was only meant to be changed for PVP and now everyone has a useless Loremaster. Trust is earned and KI lies to us a lot.
      I think you misunderstand this change. From all indications- this change will lead to decay being removed- your critical and block will no longer decay as you level. However, since your critical and block is being compared to monster's critical and block- you will still be incentivized to go for higher crit and block lest you fall behind the monsters of the most recent worlds.

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    9. #39
      lethargy101's Avatar
        lethargy101 is offline Grandmaster Wizard
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      Re: Upcoming Critical and Block changes

      Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stormbringer View Post
      I think you misunderstand this change. From all indications- this change will lead to decay being removed- your critical and block will no longer decay as you level. However, since your critical and block is being compared to monster's critical and block- you will still be incentivized to go for higher crit and block lest you fall behind the monsters of the most recent worlds.
      I may well be misunderstanding and this is what I hoped you would say a few days ago. I still think you are being sneaky so that people with 100% critical in LIVE today don't have after test. Bro you hide the truth like politicians. I'd love to apologize to KI , I mean you, but after TEST goes live, my 100% crit wizards will not be 100% critical. @Sparck prove me wrong. level 130 with 840+ critical will not be 100% critical. Prove it?

      @Eric Stormbringer will my Wizards with 100% critical be 100% after?
      Last edited by Willowdreamer; 10-19-20 at 9:22:20 AM. Reason: removed inappropriate comment

    10. #40
      Eric Stormbringer's Avatar
        Eric Stormbringer is online now Grandmaster Wizard

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      edited quote to match

      Quote Originally Posted by lethargy101 View Post
      I may well be misunderstanding and this is what I hoped you would say a few days ago. I still think you are being sneaky so that people with 100% critical in LIVE today don't have after test. Bro you hide the truth like politicians. I'd love to apologize to KI , I mean you, but after TEST goes live, my 100% crit wizards will not be 100% critical. @Sparck prove me wrong. level 130 with 840+ critical will not be 100% critical. Prove it?
      Lol- I see you still think I'm KI. Anyhow, no one is "hiding the truth"- we won't know for sure what KI's function looks like until test. The conclusions we are drawing are based on what's been said in the Dev Diary.

      Also- no one is trying to hide that 100% critical is likely now impossible. I said as much earlier:

      Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stormbringer View Post
      As they're using a limit function- 100% critical is likely impossible. However-(as per Devs) they can tweak the numbers based on test realm results to come close. If they do want to retain the possibility of 100% critical they may be able to apply an exception above a certain value but all of this is conjecture till test comes out.
      Attachment 643328
      Last edited by Willowdreamer; 10-19-20 at 9:22:59 AM. Reason: edited

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