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  • View Poll Results: Do You Want This Change Ingame?

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    • Yes

      4 40.00%
    • No

      5 50.00%
    • Other (Specify Below!)

      1 10.00%
    Results 1 to 7 of 7
    1. #1
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is online now Grandmaster Wizard

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        •  130
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      Angry Going Second NEEDS To Change!

      In PvP, going first or second all too often determines the outcome of the match- the Player going first has a massive advantage, as they can much more easily react to their opponents plays. To help solve this, KingsIsle introduced Turn Based PvP. Although the Player who is going first still has an advantage, this edge is vastly nullified in Turn Based.

      One of the larger issues I have with turn order in PvP is that it is completely random- and this introduces problems. For example, I am on a streak of eleven matches going second on my Balance- how is that fair in the slightest!?! And a few weeks ago I had a streak of seven going first on my Ice (Ever heard of the phrase, "Ice from second is just bad"?). Naturally, I won and lost matches I wouldn't have had the turn order been reversed.
      The fact that something as seemingly mundane as turn order can make or break you in a match is a massive problem in it of itself, and I hope that this will be resolved once 5th Age PvP hits.


      I lack the multi faceted knowledge of an experienced Warlord to propose solutions that address the root of this dueling dilemma, but I can suggest this: Turn order should no longer be random.

      If Diego simply alternated your turn order, and matched you up accordingly, that would be a step in the right direction. We would no longer see insane losing streaks because the RNG Lords were unhappy with your Wizard, and crazy winning streaks from first would be a thing of the past.

      Last edited by JaredSpellFrost; 9-26-20 at 3:30:35 PM.

      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back."
      -Cosmos



    2. #2
      SeptenaryRavens's Avatar
        SeptenaryRavens is offline Magus Wizard
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      Re: Going Second NEEDS To Change!

      The issue with alternating turns is that it would be possible for your opponent to do a combo. If your opponent is second during round 1, they will go first for round 2, making it so that they can use two spells in a row while you could only defend yourself for one turn, not both. If anything (unless you stun the first round), going second would be a better option. I do believe that there should be change to going first and second, but definitely not to a point where grandfather spider's turn cheat is a normal mechanic in PvP.

      For example:

      1st round - you first, opponent second
      2nd round - opponent first, you second
      3rd round - you first, opponent second
      etc...

      Another example:

      1st round - you use tower shield, opponent uses blade (or a wand hit, or the pet maycast shatters or pierce)
      2nd round - opponent uses damage spell and takes most of your health, you use your pips to satyr yourself
      3rd round - now you don't have enough pips to use a high enough damage spell, your opponent uses a shield
      etc...

      In another context, alternating turns could also mean "you get to go first for this match, then you go second for the next match". What happens when you match with someone who is also supposed to go first as well as you?
      Last edited by SeptenaryRavens; 9-25-20 at 8:24:52 PM.




    3. #3
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is online now Grandmaster Wizard

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      Lightbulb Re: Going Second NEEDS To Change!

      Quote Originally Posted by SeptenaryRavens View Post
      In another context, alternating turns could also mean "you get to go first for this match, then you go second for the next match". What happens when you match with someone who is also supposed to go first as well as you?
      This is the idea I was going for, not alternating turn order mid match. This dilemma could be prevented in Ranked PvP altogether, as there are more than enough participants to maintain alternating matches. There could be an option for leaving it to the RNG Lords if you become impatient, though.

      In cases where a coin flip is necessary, such as the top ranked Players in a tourney, I propose these modifications:
      -The Wizard with a higher PvP Rank (Sargent, Warlord, etc.) is less likely to go first
      -The Wizard with more Tournament wins is less likely to go first
      -The Wizard with more Tournament points is less likely to go first
      -The Wizard with better stats is less likely to go first


      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back."
      -Cosmos



    4. #4
      Parcheesy00's Avatar
        Parcheesy00 is offline Apprentice Wizard
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      Re: Going Second NEEDS To Change!

      I fail to see what the problem is. With turn-based, you can always react to what your opponent does. It's not like before where if you went second, you had to predict what your opponent will do. Now, it's simply a matter of whoever plays their cards better, and gains more value out of the turn.

      Sure, going "second" may feel like you're at a disadvantage, but it only really applies to the very first turn of the game, and keep in mind that by going second you do get an extra power pip. So think about it, if you and your opponent decide to hit each other on the first turn(disregarding whether it's a good move or not), he/she can only hit you with a 3 pip spell, while you can hit him/her back with a 5 pip spell.

      I haven't dabbled in too many card games, but I have played Hearthstone quite extensively. If you go second in that game, you get a "coin" that gives you one extra mana for one turn. Wizard101 basically gives you a "coin" that gives you one power pip if you go second, except that you automatically use it on your first turn. It really is no difference.

    5. #5
      Patrick FairyStalker's Avatar
        Patrick FairyStalker is online now Master Wizard
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      Re: Going Second NEEDS To Change!

      Uh..you'll find in higher ranked PvP that people much prefer to go second, because you get to draw more cards in the first round.

      Normally, you only draw cards from your main deck after you make your move. When going second, you can discard before your first move, allowing you to draw a stun shield early.

      Honestly this is such a non-issue in Ranked PvP. The advantages between first and second are so small that they're negligible. The person going first gets to pick first and set the tone of the game; the person going second gets an extra pip and more discard power. They're both advantages on their own and are not better or worse than the other. After 3 rounds of the game, I will not remember who went first, because there was no competitive advantage.

      We should be talking about the turn-based system in tournaments, which is still using the old system for non-turn based tournaments.
      Last edited by Patrick FairyStalker; 9-26-20 at 2:11:12 PM.

    6. #6
      ChoGath's Avatar
        ChoGath is offline Master Wizard
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      Re: Going Second NEEDS To Change!

      Quote Originally Posted by Patrick FairyStalker View Post
      Uh..you'll find in higher ranked PvP that people much prefer to go second, because you get to draw more cards in the first round.
      Normally, you only draw cards from your main deck after you make your move. When going second, you can discard before your first move, allowing you to draw a stun shield early.
      Honestly this is such a non-issue in Ranked PvP. The advantages between first and second are so small that they're negligible. The person going first gets to pick first and set the tone of the game; the person going second gets an extra pip and more discard power. They're both advantages on their own and are not better or worse than the other. After 3 rounds of the game, I will not remember who went first, because there was no competitive advantage.
      We should be talking about the turn-based system in tournaments, which is still using the old system for non-turn based tournaments.
      In the High speed YOLO levels, that extra pip going 2nd is a big help too.

    7. #7
      Minecraft Wizard's Avatar
        Minecraft Wizard is offline Apprentice Wizard

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        •  Death
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      Re: Going Second NEEDS To Change!

      You never answered your own question.

      How does one have an advantage when going first in this turn base PvP?

      The only evidence you gave was the fact you lost multiple matches. Sounds like someone is just upset and needs to vent.

      -Seth DeathHunter-
      Master of Death

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