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    Thread: Stats On Mounts


    1. #1
      Fredwardo's Avatar
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      Stats On Mounts

      I've been wanting to make this thread since I started playing again in March but I kinda never got around to it and the topic (to my surprise) wasn't really one people discussed in game and on other various sites a ton.

      I just wanna be blunt and say stats being on mounts is absolutely a disgusting practice. I have played tons of games growing up. Video games and work are basically my life at the moment. In all my time I have NEVER seen a game have actual stat boosts on mounts the same way gear gives stats. Mounts should only be able to alter speed and movement since that is their point. Having a Ghulture should strictly be cosmetic and affect speed.

      I've been trying to wrap my brain around other games that have a stat boosting mount system and I just don't know of any so...

      Lets take a look at some other MMOs and how they handle mounts:

      Elder Scrolls Online: Mounts are purely cosmetic. There is a riding, carrying capacity, and stamina skill for them which you can level up for a very cheap price in gold. Mounts are pretty good for PvP so having a higher level riding skill definitely helps however it is easily obtainable. I've played this game a ton and still play. There are no stats on crowns mounts since a riding skill is for a toon and not a mount meaning if you change mounts the skill it kept (Funny enough their real money -> in-game currency is also called crowns)

      Guild Wars 2: Mounts are only available in an expansion the game has. You get one with the expansion and you do level it up. It does provide other stats and benefits (per a friend explaining this to me) but overall it does not change anything with the game. Do also bear in mind that GW2 works on the pay for expansion system so there is a difference between that and Wizard101's subscription-style.

      World of Warcraft: I haven't touched this game in a while so if I am wrong do let me know. Mounts are quite important since certain environments can only be scaled with certain mounts. Usually with these mounts they are given as guaranteed quest rewards to further your gameplay (Imagine if the Battledrake became a perm mount). Of course there are cosmetic ones and like ESO there is a riding skill that is tiered and affects solely speed.

      Final Fantasy 14: Mounts are guaranteed from certain quests, can be dropped, can be purchased as well using real money from stuff (imagine the Kroger card giving a mount instead of a jewel). Once again the only skill is a riding skill to increase speed. There is no stat boost

      Black Desert Online: This one is an interesting one and I've spent a decent amount of time on BDO. It does have mount skills that can make a player better vs someone without one, however they are primarily tailored to 'stuff mounts do'. For example you can train your horse to charge, carry two people, jump higher. Keyword train. There is such a thing as mount equipment but its closer in line with boosting your own mount for combat. Imagine if mounts had sockets for star jewels. Personally I wouldn't be opposed.BDO does have a cash shop. BDO is sometimes regarded as Pay2Win at higher levels and to some extent I can sorta agree and disagree on the same boundaries Wiz101 is considered that way.

      I will admit these MMOs are different than Wiz since Wiz is a turn-based game. In my opinion for Wiz101 mounts actually should affect combat less than the other games since the difference is that when you enter the battle ring its you and your deck. You don't get an advantage for charging a horse at an enemy when they aren't looking for extra damage.

      Even in singleplayer games mounts are primary designed for speed. Very rarely do you see mounts give stats. Its almost like thats the point of mounts..

      However here's the real point of the post. All the above games mounts are readily available as quest rewards, drops, and for events. The primary thing they all have in common is a riding skill. Personally I don't feel like wiz needs a riding skill since like I said combat doesn't involve mounts. In wizard101 the mounts that give stats are ONLY available as paid items. The Narwhal and Mammoth are the only two available with free options (If you count fishing as 'free'). Ghultures are the best and are packs only. Even if they become a guaranteed item with a 'ghulture bundle' in the crown shop you still have to pay real money for stats which is just flat out pay2win.

      'b-b-but Fred its not like the Ghultures give a lot, its only 3% extra damage. Thats basically nothing I'm able to get to overlord without them'.

      Absolutely correct! It isn't much. You don't need to have 175 damage as a storm to be good at PvE as a hitter. I actually swapped from a quad damage pet to a triple damage and proof pet since the extra 3% I found to be negligible. Actually you don't need any gear to be good at PvP. Just make a bunch of other accounts and you'll be set . Want proof? Just check the leaderboards.

      Jokes aside, I don't really value the 'you don't need it to be good' argument. The fact of the matter is if you want the BEST damage you NEED a Ghulture. I don't care if you can do just fine without the best stats. I'm a tri-boxer, as @jlegendwielder said 'I can take anything KI throws at me, I just don't like being messed with do you?'

      Some people want the best stats and they should be able to obtain those stats without having to pay extra on top of their subscription. Its not about being able to do well without its about being able to be the best if you want to. You don't have to, but the option should be there without having to pay extra.

      The other argument is Kingisle's track record. Lets look at spellements. Daybreaker and Nightbringer started from packs but are dropped frequently from the catacombs. The 1-2 pip spells come from various key bosses and the deckathalon but the drop rates are awful and the amount needed to upgrade spells is way too much for the rate they drop. The past scrolls of fortune gave out a decent amount of spellements but the new fall one gives less than the previous summer which gave less than the winter I might add. There should be another thread comparing this go check it out! Now the new Celestian spellements are ONLY from the pack as now.

      It starts as a small outgoing boost, then maybe like 1-2% pierce, then damage. At some point it ends up being part of a gear set that adds a substantial amount of stat changes. You probably know where I'm going with this.

      The new primeval pack is where I decided to speak. I saw that the mount is part of the gear set. While not directly giving stats the mount counts for the primeval set which at 2-3 pieces can offer an extra 7% damage and 8% resist depending on the set. I'm sorry but that is absolutely atrocious. A mount that is the rarest thing from a pack should not count towards a gear set. The only things that should count towards the set are the gear itself (I don't even think the pet should count but thats another argument for another time).

      The pack has not released officially yet and I really think Kingisle should fix this issue. Right now its still pretty negligible overall but at some point it will break the game. I truly believe this.

      But yeah that's my argument. I'm not one to bash gaming companies. Every game has a cash shop nowadays from mobile like Clash of Clans to GTA:Online. Its just modern gaming you have to accept that. MMO's are the worst offenders imo.

      I usually defend KingsIsle since they are a much smaller company and I get why they push the crown shop so much. I do spend a decent amount of money on the game since I have less time to play due to work. To me I'd rather toss $10 and save me a few hours of grinding. A lot of the posts on here like to blindly attack them for anything they even try to remotely push with the Crown shop which I dislike. I like how they communicate and I like the KI live stuff. Compared to some other companies KI does a pretty good job. This direction they are going I simply cannot defend.

      I apologize for underlining and italicizing the 'buzzwords' but it just needs to be said.
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      Last edited by Fredwardo; 9-5-20 at 5:53:03 PM. Reason: Sprucing up my awful grammar

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    2. #2
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      Re: Stats On Mounts

      I'm absolutely terrified of the new pack. Both the mount and pet aspect. Ghulture 2.0 but this time to be competitive you absolutely NEED the new mount. You can't shrug off 7% damage and 8% universal resist like you could with the 3% with the Ghultures (not that that makes the Ghultures ok).

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    3. #3
      Wiz of Death's Avatar
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      Re: Stats On Mounts

      I completely agree with you. I think KI is really digging themself a hole they can't crawl out of by continuously adding these blatant pay-to-win features. First we start introducing mounts (only obtainable by purchasing packs) that offer increased damage, then spellements (that you also have to purchase in packs) such that you can have stronger versions of the normal spells everyone else has.
      I don't think I need to explain now what's happening with gear set bonuses.

      Unfortunately, now that KI has already opened the Pandora's box of pay-to-win features, they can't back out. Nerfing these features or even removing them would result in a massive backlash from the community that's invested so much money in these gears for the very purpose of having an advantage of others, both in PvE and PvP.

    4. #4
      Fredwardo's Avatar
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      Re: Stats On Mounts

      Quote Originally Posted by Wiz of Death View Post
      =
      Unfortunately, now that KI has already opened the Pandora's box of pay-to-win features, they can't back out. Nerfing these features or even removing them would result in a massive backlash from the community that's invested so much money in these gears for the very purpose of having an advantage of others, both in PvE and PvP.
      I still believe they can fix this issue. The pack has not been officially released yet. While the new pet is already beginning circulation the scroll only offers one pack (I think) and the mount from the scroll is only 7 days. There is still time to remove the set counting on the mount (and hopefully on the pet too).

      As for the Ghultures and other stat boosting mounts. Its fine if they exist. While I absolutely hate the concept behind them KI can leave them as they are and (hopefully) introduce a dropped version of a 3% damage mount and stop introducing stat mounts all together.

      I highly doubt they'll do the latter point but it would be the fairer move for the playerbase.

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    5. #5
      Allison DeathWielder's Avatar
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      Re: Stats On Mounts

      Quote Originally Posted by Wiz of Death View Post
      Unfortunately, now that KI has already opened the Pandora's box of pay-to-win features, they can't back out. Nerfing these features or even removing them would result in a massive backlash from the community that's invested so much money in these gears for the very purpose of having an advantage of others, both in PvE and PvP.
      They (Ratbeard and Mattnetic) have actually said on Twitter more than once that game balance is more important to them than keeping an OP gear piece the way it is because people paid for it. More specifically, at least one of them said (paraphrasing) that they can't let an OP piece of gear stay just because people spent a lot of money to get it.

      These pieces of gear can and probably will change, given that we also know that in the future there will be an audit for stats and gear. When that happens, I really hope that players remember that there's always been a disclaimer stating that anything purchased in the game can be changed or removed at any time, and that we as players agreed to that when we signed up.
      Last edited by Allison DeathWielder; 9-5-20 at 11:05:12 PM.

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    6. #6
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
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      Re: Stats On Mounts

      I agree, mounts with stats need to go. However, people have paid money specifically for these Mounts- demanding that they be removed seems hypocritical, especially after the community rallied against the Death Sinbad wand being removed. Despite this, I believe that I have found a solution- simply ban mounts with stats from the Arena!

      It can't be PTW if its limited to PvE, right?


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    7. #7
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      Re: Stats On Mounts

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      I agree, mounts with stats need to go. However, people have paid money specifically for these Mounts- demanding that they be removed seems hypocritical, especially after the community rallied against the Death Sinbad wand being removed. Despite this, I believe that I have found a solution- simply ban mounts with stats from the Arena!
      Yeah its a tough call, personally I don't think its gotten too far out of hand. I think just keeping whats in right now is okay even if it really is still P2W
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post

      It can't be PTW if its limited to PvE, right?
      This is where I disagree because the concept of winning in my eyes is somewhat subjective. I want the best damage as a PvE player. I feel like I win when I have the best stats. Thus since I cannot achieve the best damage without paying more money on top of a subscription.

      Its pretty common in many games that winning is being the absolute best or one of the bests in the game. If I have to pay to get a mount that gives me 3% extra damage to get the 175% then that is P2W

      This is a tricky thing to debate because it all depends what the user views as winning.

      In my opinion its correct to think that the difference between 175% damage and 172% (The amount my storm has with a quint-dmg pet) is rather negligible. However to some, even if its an extra 3% they must acquire it to win. In my opinion you are the 'best' (I use best very loosely here) when you have the highest damage.

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    8. #8
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      Re: Stats On Mounts

      This is not a new topic at all. @Jaded Gaze had made a post about this same topic and I do believe there is a poll about it as well.


      I know that there are few on lines games out there that have stats on mounts. Blade and Soul, Aion, LoA and I was told that WoW had mounts with stats, but its a game I have not played myself.

      How I feel about it, I personally at this time I do not have an issue with it. The only thing I would say about it, keeps it so it gives everyone a chance in getting them. As long as they are not pack mounts with stats, but game cards or ones you can get in crown shop, that's fine. Pack are too much by chance and that is where I would have an Issue


      I just found the thread! http://www.wizard101central.com/foru...FOR-OR-AGAINST

      I looked back on that thread, and it looks like I voted no. I did not read through it all, but seems like my view had slightly changed. Time to do some reading.
      Last edited by Bailey Jade; 9-5-20 at 9:08:49 PM. Reason: Remove one comment added link

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    9. #9
      Fredwardo's Avatar
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      Re: Stats On Mounts

      Quote Originally Posted by Bailey Jade View Post
      I just found the thread! http://www.wizard101central.com/foru...FOR-OR-AGAINST

      I looked back on that thread, and it looks like I voted no. I did not read through it all, but seems like my view had slightly changed. Time to do some reading.
      I was actually looking for it myself when you mentioned someone else posted about the topic. Thanks for posting the link!

      It seems as though mounts on stats started around 2015. I was away from the game during that time. OP is correct that it starts with just some accuracy and pierce and now its damage and soon to be damage and resist. A large amount I might add.

      About the point on playing other games. I play a huge variety haha! As I pointed out other games do have mounts with abilities but mounted combat tends to be a mechanic in those said games. In LoA you are given and mount and level up skills (riding skill). In wiz there isn't mounted combat due to how the game is played.

      Maybe its just me but I just don't see good things when mounts start getting stats. The powercreep can get fast real quick.

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    10. #10
      Wiz of Death's Avatar
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      Re: Stats On Mounts

      Quote Originally Posted by Fredwardo View Post
      I was actually looking for it myself when you mentioned someone else posted about the topic. Thanks for posting the link!

      It seems as though mounts on stats started around 2015. I was away from the game during that time. OP is correct that it starts with just some accuracy and pierce and now its damage and soon to be damage and resist. A large amount I might add.

      About the point on playing other games. I play a huge variety haha! As I pointed out other games do have mounts with abilities but mounted combat tends to be a mechanic in those said games. In LoA you are given and mount and level up skills (riding skill). In wiz there isn't mounted combat due to how the game is played.

      Maybe its just me but I just don't see good things when mounts start getting stats. The powercreep can get fast real quick.
      Honestly KI might just start releasing mounts in future worlds (imagine a new Catacombs-like dungeon that drops mounts) with stats even better than the Ghulture ones but are level capped (i.e. Level 135+ only). Doesn't complete make the ghulture mounts useless, but at the same time there's now a viable alternative.

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