R.I.P Classic Crown Sales

[Wiz of Death]

This thread does not need to exclusively be about Crown Sales, but seeing how this segment of it has been concluded we should move on to talking about other things! ..Like how @Sparck- or rather KingsIsle*- still hasn't given us anything about a non-answer...

*I say this because Sparck is just the messenger here!

Not gonna lie I've quite enjoyed the fact that they haven't released crown sales. It means I haven't been spending money on this game and then ripping hairs out of my head lamenting how I've spent so much hard-earned cash on (usually) just a one or two pieces of gears from packs that give me 3% boost in gear stats. I'm completely down for buying aesthetic things like stitches and mounts and what not. I don't use crowns to purchase areas, so I guess the only other reason I'd buy bulk crowns is probably for packs...something about this whole pay-to-win thing just puts me in a vicious cycle where I feel disgusted at myself after the money I've spent.

[Willowdreamer]

Okay, guys - the question this thread is asking is if members want the "Classic" Crowns sales back. While discussing how people prefer to buy their Crowns is okay, all of this back and forth about money management and credit seems to be derailing the discussion.

Let's get back on topic, please.

[Grumpy Cat]

I think it's a pretty easy fix.

Premises are:
(1) People are willing to buy less crowns without sales, especially the super crown sale.
(2) KI's pretty much said they do better financially when they do have more crown sales.

Thus, our natural conclusion:
(1) More sales = happier customers (us) = more money for KI.


I guess you could bring in inflation and stuff, but with mounts, areas, etc. already costing double or more crowns than 10 years ago, I don't think that's a fair statement. There's so many cosmetic extras at this point that are pretty expensive compared to past years in addition to the entire pack lottery. Imo raising prices and reducing sales can't both happen sustainably with their current base and lower popularity. At this rate of lowered interest and willingness to buy, a simply economics grade tells us all we need to know about the future of this KI marketing team.

[Crystal Calligraphy]

I can't help but agree with @Wiz of Death and @Grumpy Cat; without bulk crowns sales, they haven't really made me want to give them business. There are of course the coveted jewels from Kroger gift cards, but that's never going to be a better deal than the bulk sales we used to get more often in the past.

Gear stats change constantly, next year's gear will be "the best" along with any other fancy jewels or packs that they wish to release. All the things people are spending copious amounts of time/money on, are really only temporary benefits (in my personal opinion) until the next updates come. And with the sheer amount of aesthetic items they've been pushing out, people have a lot of choices as to what they would rather pick and choose.

While expanding buying options in the crown store can be great for diversity, not expanding purchasing options for crowns is a bottleneck tactic that does not make any reasonable business sense. Allowing more options for crown bundles and more availability of gift cards for online purchases is the way of the future. More options = more sales = happier customer base = larger customer base = more sales = infinite loop.

The easier it is for the user to get what they want, the happier they will be. However, from a programmer perspective this also means it's more difficult and complex to code in the backend, as manual processes are being eliminated. So I'm not sure if KI just doesn't have a good economics grasp, or if their programmers are too busy creating the next pack to bother with updating their crowns/bundle purchasing options in conjunction with the increased marketing they're doing.

[Wiz of Death]

I can't help but agree with @Wiz of Death and @Grumpy Cat; without bulk crowns sales, they haven't really made me want to give them business. There are of course the coveted jewels from Kroger gift cards, but that's never going to be a better deal than the bulk sales we used to get more often in the past.

Gear stats change constantly, next year's gear will be "the best" along with any other fancy jewels or packs that they wish to release. All the things people are spending copious amounts of time/money on, are really only temporary benefits (in my personal opinion) until the next updates come. And with the sheer amount of aesthetic items they've been pushing out, people have a lot of choices as to what they would rather pick and choose.

While expanding buying options in the crown store can be great for diversity, not expanding purchasing options for crowns is a bottleneck tactic that does not make any reasonable business sense. Allowing more options for crown bundles and more availability of gift cards for online purchases is the way of the future. More options = more sales = happier customer base = larger customer base = more sales = infinite loop.

The easier it is for the user to get what they want, the happier they will be. However, from a programmer perspective this also means it's more difficult and complex to code in the backend, as manual processes are being eliminated. So I'm not sure if KI just doesn't have a good economics grasp, or if their programmers are too busy creating the next pack to bother with updating their crowns/bundle purchasing options in conjunction with the increased marketing they're doing.

Exactly. I'd really at least like to hear from KI the reason they're not having the classical crown sales anymore. Are they financially not doing well? You can't just have this tradition of putting out these beloved crowns sales and then discontinue them without any notice. I feel like KI has grown a lot as a company in responding to customer suggestions and taking into account our feedback, but there's still much room for improvement in the area of transparency. Perhaps begin by explaining why you've opted to replace the classic crown sales with clearly inferior deals like your 1 month + 2800 crowns or your 6-month + 13750 crowns deal.

On a side note, player burnout is something KI really shouldn't overlook, and they're really pushing their luck by making the game more and more pay-to-win. It's difficult enough that some of the best gear right now is locked in packs or takes a decade to farm for. The reason I've been so on and off with this game is because I go into a frenzy mode farming for days for Dragoon gear or dumping 60 bucks (it's even harder now without Pack-a-Paloozas as well) on a pack for one mount or robe. Once I get it, I just feel so burned out and I ask myself what this is all for...especially since I'm going to have to repeat this process in 6 months once something better comes out. But perhaps this is my fault and I should have known better...what else could I expect from a company whose business model is based off of players having to pay a subscription to farm for weeks or spend hundreds of dollars for a *chance* at the gear they want? It really amazes me looking at other companies like Riot (League of Legends) whose games literally don't require you to spend to cent on, and yet they still bring over a billion dollars in revenue each year.

My point is you're already making it hard enough on your players by locking these gear behind hours of farming or hundreds of dollars in packs, on top of the fact that there's no sense of security with these gear once you've acquired them since better ones will just be released in the blink of an eye. So don't also make it hard for us to spend cash on this game by getting rid of the deals that many players are enjoying.

[sparkyflamefire]

Non-member, non-Crowns buyer here. At least, I haven't bought crowns in years. Only thing I use crowns for is to open up zones when they introduce a new world. I earn enough crowns for that by watching videos, doing daily activities, or doing the trivia quizzes.

Sure, I don't get to take advantage of double rewards events. So it takes me longer to train up a pet or to accumulate reagents/pet snacks/TC via gardening, etc. So what. Its not like there's any new worlds to be exploring. I'm grinding the catacombs for extract. All my wizards already have the Dragoon Hat, Boots and Amulets, and now I'm working on rings. Gives me something to do while waiting for the next world to drop. Maybe November? Next year?

I'm more concerned about the shoddy product they've been putting out lately. All the bugs in the Spring update. Seems like every new Deckathalon/Beastmoon event comes with a bug or two. Some minor, some major. In a Mayhem event not getting credit for the win because you weren't in the spiral at the end. Reminds me of Fellspawn not getting badges unless you were in the first spot. Now upgraded fire elf spells can't target? Meleager? How long did it take before they fixed the fake wisps in Beastmoon? How about someone upgrade the wiki to show that its Prince Viggor drops the boots (Got into an argument earlier today with someone who insisted that "It says right here that the dragon.."). And so on, ad nauseum.

[KieranCaster]

This is a me too moveme........errrrrrr....... post.

I would only purchase crowns when it was $80 for 90,000 crowns. Lately, there hasn't been much for me to use the game currency on - but that is partly because of the time I am spending on the game and things that I focus on.

Lately, it's been non-crown game play for me: Gardening, and yesterday, I just jumped back into Loremaster. Still trying to get Ratatoskrs Spin on my daughter's Life, and other spells as I four (4) box.

With Football on the big screen as a backdrop, I will be farming away!

And yes, I would purchase the crowns if the sale came back, even though I don't need them.


KC

[JaredSpellFrost]

I'm more concerned about the shoddy product they've been putting out lately. All the bugs in the Spring update. Now upgraded fire elf spells can't target? Meleager? How long did it take before they fixed the fake wisps in Beastmoon?

Anyone else remember how incredibly buggy the Wizard City graphics update was? And remember how your game would always crash whenever you tried to open the Shark Week Crown Rewards? @Caspeen had a great post on how buggy the Beastmoon Hunt is, found here- I encourage everyone here to check it out!
It is almost like the Developers are not given the time to patch bugs before live realm- all too often do I hear horror stories about people reporting bugs in Test, only to discover that their reports went ignored. Quality over quantity, KingsIsle! And if you don't believe that, just look at how often Elder Scroll games come out...
Although, it must be said that several of the following reviews noted that they were never in "crunch time", so perhaps the problem lies in inherent incompetency.

---

It would appear that @Grumpy Cat and @Crystal Calligraphy are better at marketing than KingsIsle's entire team! ...Or perhaps they just have a soul... Hmm, that's a toughie!

Great point about player burnout @Wiz of Death! For me personally, it is exhausting keeping up with KingsIsle's weekly antics, non-answers, and flat out lies. It is comforting to know that some KingsIsle employees agree that their company is corrupt though- here are some reviews of the company from a popular review site!:

(Disclaimer: I cannot claim that these are empirical facts! )

Cons
Extremely risk averse and metric driven
Most employees are just collecting a pay check
Promotions are based on seniority rather than merit, therefore many senior positions are filled by people who have little experience outside of Kingsisle or no leadership skills.

I worked at KingsIsle Entertainment full-time for more than 3 yearsPros
We have many "holidays" where we celebrate with expensive food. Worker compensation is decent.
-Adding features to track down player activity is a big bonus on your paycheck.
-Adding features that track down player spending activities and targeting those players will add to your paycheck.Cons
I've seen a lot of gifted software developers come and go and here are some of those instances:
-Improving any sort of quality of life when playing stepping into the game as a player will get you fired (Having the ability to teleport to quest givers, setting your deck for your minion, and so on).
-Modularizing models and implementing a Fibonacci Heap for loading (5x faster game launching) will get you fired.
-Any ideas for the company that reflects positively on the player base like removing the subscription paywall on areas will get you fired.
-Making dead features such as allowing pet games to grant energy will get you fired.
-Adding skip turn features for battles will get you fired.
-Allowing more people to join houses will get you fired.
-Adding calculations to a player's account from creation date (Like +13 years to assume the player is at least 13 years of age) will get you fired.
-Adding any elixir that cost exclusively gold will get you fired.

Advice to Management

I've done some statistical work for the company and some developments to the engine. In that time I've reviewed the data, the player base has a steady decline of 5% every month which reflects poor senior management decisions on what to push out in each update.

I have been working at KingsIsle Entertainment full-time for more than 5 years

Pros

Solid pay for most jobs if you can actually survive the overly self- indulgent interview process.Nice, friendly, talented local people who like to have fun, play all sorts of games and be creative when allowed to be. Lots of underused talent in the studio. Average benefit package with the very occasional company outing or play day. A consistent paycheck for the moment. OK work / life balance if you completely check out and put forth little care or effort towards the sinking ship around you.

Cons

Kingsisle isn't Blizzard or EA, and the last relevant game they shipped is almost 10 years old, but upper management/HR will treat you like you need to be a ROCK STAR just to interview for them regardless.

Owner is totally unqualified, narcissistic, rude and apathetic towards his employees.

Over the past ten years their two(ish) successful live MMO titles have declined in profitability and the company remains directionless with no sustainable future.

Upper management, is filled with sycophants and decision dodgers, who form a wall of exclusion when it comes to making creative or informed decisions.

Just trying to get ideas heard by decision makers is judged harshly by middle management and frowned upon.
Industry experience and experienced opinions are very undervalued, with very few exceptions.

There is an overall fear of accountability throughout all levels of management causing production delays, needless iteration, and stagnation of creativity. This translates to employees whose moral is so low they have little care or input left to give.

Ill informed, game design choices and management decisions made by middle and upper management, who are drawing at straws due to lack of experience.

Self centered management not company or product focused.

No appreciation or understand of current game design standards, analytical data or marketing trends.

We know better attitudes on a corporate level, very xenophobic and paranoid about people outside the inner circle .

Opaque approach to mobile game development, with zero analytic transparency and zero sharing of company goals and direction.

Recent shift to mobile was many years late and volumes of experience short for actual success.

Can't ship a product besides content for Wizard 101.

30 to 48 month development cycles for mobile games that if even released become shovelware due to poor marketing, monetization design and analytical expertise.

Company laid off the entire marketing department because upper management "knew better".

Current roster of three "shipped" mobile games took 4+ years to develop and currently earn less than $15K gross revenue collectively according to App Annie.

Very corporate, no game industry culture.

No room for growth or advancement anymore, management spots are locked out and upper management are hostile to newcomers.

PTO time is ridiculously monitored by the hour with a nickel and dime mentality.

Creativity is only encouraged when it comes from upper management brainstorms or select middle management followers.

Middle management has serious decision paralysis and are ill equipped to lead teams.

Lost over 90 employees to layoffs last year thanks to their failed mobile transition and are suffering severe attrition on a weekly basis.

Planning to give my notice immediately upon finding another position.

Advice to Management

None. You didn't listen to me during my long tenure as an employee, doubtful anything I can say now will change your mind. Hope that other talented people run from the plethora of job postings that will be popping up in the near future. Unless you have nothing to lose and desperately need employment, there is no future here.

[lethargy101]

@JaredSpellFrost the crown offer you've been waiting so very long for is finally back and you can't buy any.

[JaredSpellFrost]

@JaredSpellFrost the crown offer you've been waiting so very long for is finally back and you can't buy any.

I wouldn't have bought any Crowns regardless- this sale is not one of the Classic Crown sales, sadly.