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    1. #11
      Paige Whisper's Avatar
        Paige Whisper is offline Journeyman Wizard

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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      In case anyone wants a quick, easy comparison, here are the shadow spell changes (additional effects that weren't changed remain unmentioned for the sake of space). Text in green are spells that received a buff. Text in red are spells that were nerfed.
      School (Spell) Original Adjusted Delta
      Fire (FFA) 1100-1300 dmg + 3 25% fire traps 720-840 dmg + 1 25% fire trap 460 max dmg & 2 fire traps
      Fire (Bull) 775-900 dmg 700-820 dmg 80 max dmg
      Ice (Weaver) 950-1150 dmg & -75% shield 590-710 dmg & -50% shield 440 max dmg & 25% on shield
      Storm (Glowbug) 1120 dmg & remove all blades 730 dmg & remove one blade 390 dmg & blades removed
      Storm (Rusalka) 1445 dmg 1165 dmg 280 dmg
      Myth (Colossus) 880 dmg & remove all shields Remove 1 shield & 450 dmg Shields removed (also now before instead of after) & 430 dmg
      Life (Caterpillar) 950-1150 dmg 590-710 dmg 440 max dmg
      Death (Lulu) 830 drain 595 drain 235 dmg
      Death (Sorrow) 850-1030 death dmg 940-1120 death dmg 90 dmg
      Balance (Gaze of Fate) 550 balance dmg + 550 random dmg 250 balance dmg + 250 random dmg 600 dmg (assuming neutral random school)

      Things to highlight:
      • FFA now does significantly less than Scorch.
      • Weaver now does significantly less than Climaclysm.
      • Caterpillar now does significantly less than Lamassu.
      • Gaze of Fate now does significantly (a tiny bit more than 50%) less than Wurm.
      • Rusalka now has a base damage that is only 17 points higher than Sultan.
      • Lulu now has a base damage that is only 25 points higher than Deer Knight.
      • For the same amount of pips, Colossus does only 25 points of damage more than Snowball Barrage. With this exception (which arguably isn't much of one, since one additional pip puts Barrage higher), every school now has a stronger AoE than myth.
      • Rusalka now has a base damage that is only 32 points higher than Witch's House Call (at its strongest).
      • Snowball Barrage is now the single strongest AoE available to players in the game at 10+ pips (850 dmg). Note that this was previously true as well, but only at 14 pips, and only by 70 dmg (vs Glowbug).


      My takes, coming at this from an exclusively PvE standpoint, since I don't PvP:

      So... the purpose of this update was to largely make the 5/6 pip shadow spells nearly if not completely defunct? Why? I guess we can say goodbye to FFA, Weaver, Caterpillar, and Rusalka. I cannot see an argument for using any of those spells now unless you wanted the secondary effects... but if you're fire or ice, you're still better off casting Scorch or Climaclysm + a fire trap or tower shield respectively. There is no point risking the weakness with Rusalka, and the absorb isn't strong enough to make Caterpillar worth it.

      This is going to be harsh, but, Gaze of Fate. I think it was, err, difficult to use to start with because of the random school damage. So... go ahead and make it even more useless, I suppose. Might as well. Have fun. I wasn't using it before and I won't be using it now. (Side note, you could probably now argue for skipping Darkmoor entirely on balance; I would still do it for the xp, but with gear additions and much better spells, the time seems better spent just working on the main quest line and farming the Catacombs.)

      I don't know what's to come, but quite frankly, this doesn't look like "balancing." Especially for myth and death, these are crippling changes. Myth's AoE is now on par with ice! Ice! In case it wasn't hard enough to make an argument for myth, they now have the second weakest AoE for 5 pips. And once ice gets 6+ pips, myth has the weakest AoE of all the schools. Even if that was sensible in the first place (which it's not, as myth is supposed to be one of the higher damage schools after storm and fire), it's even less sensible when you take into account that it's a shadow spell. For one more normal pip, one shadow pip, and 88 levels, a 105 damage increase from Humongofrog is pitiful. And death is getting shafted, too. Lulu will still be in play because of the drain (and because Deer Knight is 1. not universally accessible and 2. a DoT), so they're just doing even less damage than they already were. Which was moderate damage at best.

      These changes are at least a little more sensible for Glowbug, which is still storm's strongest AoE for that amount of pips (Tempest becomes stronger at 10+); Bull, for the same reason, and because it didn't change much; and technically Colossus for the same reason, but see my prior point about it now being as strong as Snowball Barrage for that amount of pips.

      Side note, I don't understand the Sorrow buff at all. I don't think that was necessary.

      Unless there is some specific game mechanic in the works that would suit or reward these changes, they seem random, with the exceptions of Bull and Glowbug. Personally, I'm not pleased about those two nerfs, but they can be managed without dramatically changing gameplay. Maybe there's something about these other changes that I'm not seeing? I'm totally happy to admit if I'm being obtuse here. Mostly, I'd like to know where these changes came from and the logic employed here.

      My main takeaway: it really stinks to be myth.
      Paige Whisper Jacob Flame Ryan RainCaller Kiley Dusk Fallon Dawn Sarah OwlRider Nora StoryDust

    2. #12
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      Quote Originally Posted by Paige Whisper View Post
      • Weaver now does significantly less than Climaclysm.

      @Sparck

      I understand these changes, and I am behind nerfing Shadow Spells as they are pretty OP. However, with that said, single hits should deal more damage than AOES! This has always been the case, so why the sudden change to this? A basic rule of thumb when it comes to damage dealing spells is that the more Pips you put in, the more power you get out- so it does not make much sense to have 5 Pip spells deal less than 4 Pip spells.
      To be fair, these spells do provide additional affects- but I feel as if they do not deserved to be nerfed so hard that they are rendered obsolete compared to our "divide and conquer" shadow spells. It is a tricky balance to maintain, what with these spells needing a nerf yet still needing to stay competitive, but I have faith that a solution will be found!


      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back."
      -Cosmos



    3. #13
      Paige Whisper's Avatar
        Paige Whisper is offline Journeyman Wizard

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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredSpellFrost View Post
      However, with that said, single hits should deal more damage than AOES! This has always been the case, so why the sudden change to this?
      This isn't true. Forest Lord is life's strongest hit until they get Gnomes (so for levels 58-68). Also, Climaclysm as an AoE is going to do less than Weaver, since the damage gets split. This goes for fire's FFA vs Scorch and life's Caterpillar vs Lamassu as well. The comparisons I made in my post were based on using the "split damage" shadow spells as single hits.
      Last edited by Paige Whisper; 7-1-20 at 2:11:28 PM.
      Paige Whisper Jacob Flame Ryan RainCaller Kiley Dusk Fallon Dawn Sarah OwlRider Nora StoryDust

    4. #14
      DarkFire054's Avatar
        DarkFire054 is offline Journeyman Wizard

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        •  Wolf LegendCaller
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        •  Fire
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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      Imagine making a spell that's intended for the late-game do less damage then the pet version of humongofrog.... why even bother trying to balance the game when you clearly know nothing about it? The most simple fix to these changes would have been balancing the spells separately for both games modes but no, lets continue to show that nobody on the dev team actually plays the game they work on.
      The Dynamic Duo: Ivan(s)? and Wizard



    5. #15
      medlnic15's Avatar
        medlnic15 is offline Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      As far as balancing issues are concerned: I really don't think they are going to leave the 4-pip spells the way they are, they just haven't changed them yet. Should they have done that before releasing these nerfs, probably. It's the same thing with normal pip spells that are now perceived to be better, those will eventually be nerfed as well. I would find it very hard to believe that this is where spell nerfs stop.
      130 S | 125 F | 110 F | 75 L | 75 I | 75 D
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    6. #16
      BaronvonWolf's Avatar
        BaronvonWolf is offline Adept Wizard

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        •  Balance
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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      i feel like giving up on my ice and myth both need work and i just dont feel like it there is a way to nerf them while still keeping them under op
      130 Wolf soulstalker 130 Valkoor wild ​130 Valkoor Myth​ 130 Valkoor 130 Alex nightshade

    7. #17
      lethargy101's Avatar
        lethargy101 is offline Grandmaster Wizard
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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      Well thanks to the PVP community(please take a bow) shadow spells have been decimated. Good job everyone. Myth Myth is useless now with no attack all with higher than 450 damage LOL. I'm not even going to complain shadow spells are a joke now. KI fixes always make the game worse.
      Last edited by lethargy101; 7-1-20 at 2:35:21 PM.

    8. #18
      Robobot1747's Avatar
        Robobot1747 is offline Journeyman Wizard

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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      Quote Originally Posted by lethargy101 View Post
      Well thanks to the PVP community(please take a bow) shadow spells have been decimated. Good job everyone. Myth Myth is useless now with no attack all with higher than 450 damage LOL. I'm not even going to complain shadow spells are a joke now. KI fixes always make the game worse.
      You can blame the PvP players but shadow magic was just really strong all around and kinda had it coming. You don't think PvP wizards do PvE too?
      "Fire can be quenched. Storms can dissipate. Myths can simply be forgotten. But Death... Death is constant. Death has existed long before you came to be and it will exist long after it takes you."

    9. #19
      JaredSpellFrost's Avatar
        JaredSpellFrost is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      Does anyone know if the health of all enemy creatures from Darkmoor and up has been lowered, in accordance with these nerfs to Shadow Spells?


      "Yet like a bad case of athlete's foot you just kept coming back."
      -Cosmos



    10. #20
      Dylan489's Avatar
        Dylan489 is offline Adept Wizard

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      Re: Summer Test Realm is UP

      I really would like to know how hard it is to make these changes separate for pvp and pve.

      Ideally, it would appease both sides if you took your pve deck and used it in pvp, your spells would change to their pvp counterparts, which would be the ones detailed in this update.

      I don't pvp at all, but know of the issue with shadow pips since their debut. Currently (now in live that is), current shadow spells are very powerful. This makes it to where I know many would solely wait for shadow pips to cast these spells, but getting a shadow pip is more based on luck than anything, which SHOULD NOT be how to win pvp matches, rather strategy. The new way of getting a shadow pip I honestly like, which gets rid of the "luck" factor.

      Some of the developers said on Twitter that because this current way intended to rebalance pvp would also affect pve, mobs and bosses would be affected as well i.e. lower health as one example (please use this update to FINALLY nerf Storm Titan). I definitely want to see this aspect of the update before I comment on the pve aspect of it.

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