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    1. #51
      Caspeen's Avatar
        Caspeen is offline W101C Tournament Master
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      Re: Deckathalon Pets

      Quote Originally Posted by <strong>davidbattleblade View Post
      It doesn't seem right does it? A spell that hits for less takes 2 rounds longer to activate?
      That's the thing - there just doesn't seem to be consistent rhyme or reason to this. Given that these are the only two WILL CAST talents I've unlocked I cannot speak knowledgeably about all of the spells, but there just doesn't seem to be a pattern here. And that for me is more annoying then the fact that they ARE different - that there's no understanding why. Is it really random, and some WC will be 1 rounds, others 2, others 3 or 4 or 5? Based on just these two it's not based on pips, or tied to happiness needed, or in any way correlated to how "powerful" these cards are. Given that these two do about the same damage, which is WAY more than many of the others - you'd think that they'd be both the same. Instead, not even close - 2 rounds is HUGE! But again, what is that based upon? There should be a way to predict how many rounds it takes to be able to use these WC talents, and to me the most obvious would be to tie them to the Pips, but in that case Earth Walker should be a 5 pip spell vs a Frozen Kraken which shows already as a 3 pip spell.

      A glitch? Or intentionally confusing?

      I realize we've gotten a bit off that subject of this thread but would certainly love to hear more about whether there is an indicator of how many rounds a WC spell takes to be usable from someone who knows more about WC talents. And then we can focus once more on the Deckathalon pets.

      Casp

    2. #52
      Caspeen's Avatar
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      Re: Deckathalon Pets

      So, looking ahead to the ICE deckathalon and experimenting with other Will Cast talents, I'm on to a new project.

      My goal - WC Vampire, double heal, Ward Wrecker or Steal Ward, and Infallible / Empowerment. Much as I LOVE the pips, I do think that the pierce from Infallible would be more useful against all the towers Ice will no doubt throw at us.

      Here's my start



      When Link is available on a pet THAT will be my next project, but for now I'll take advantage of the for sure WILL Cast heal to displace a MAY Cast heal.

      Casp
      Last edited by Caspeen; 7-29-20 at 10:39:02 PM.

    3. #53
      audacioussalix's Avatar
        audacioussalix is offline Wiki Master

      • audacioussalix's Wizard Stats
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        •  Bubba
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      Re: Deckathalon Pets

      Does Steal Ward trigger often enough to be viable? I have it on a pet as a fail manifest but I wasn't sure if it was worth the talent slot. Otherwise I'm just looking at WC Vampire plus quad heal

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by <strong>Caspeen View Post
      That's the thing - there just doesn't seem to be consistent rhyme or reason to this. Given that these are the only two WILL CAST talents I've unlocked I cannot speak knowledgeably about all of the spells, but there just doesn't seem to be a pattern here. And that for me is more annoying then the fact that they ARE different - that there's no understanding why. Is it really random, and some WC will be 1 rounds, others 2, others 3 or 4 or 5? Based on just these two it's not based on pips, or tied to happiness needed, or in any way correlated to how "powerful" these cards are. Given that these two do about the same damage, which is WAY more than many of the others - you'd think that they'd be both the same. Instead, not even close - 2 rounds is HUGE! But again, what is that based upon? There should be a way to predict how many rounds it takes to be able to use these WC talents, and to me the most obvious would be to tie them to the Pips, but in that case Earth Walker should be a 5 pip spell vs a Frozen Kraken which shows already as a 3 pip spell.

      A glitch? Or intentionally confusing?

      I realize we've gotten a bit off that subject of this thread but would certainly love to hear more about whether there is an indicator of how many rounds a WC spell takes to be usable from someone who knows more about WC talents. And then we can focus once more on the Deckathalon pets.

      Casp
      Earth Walker is a 5 pip spell, but the Item Card shows as a 0 pip spell because KI just lifted the visual item card directly from the "Dawn of the Reaping Season" which gives it as a 0 pip maycast - instead of putting together a new item card which was 5 pips and 100% accuracy. Because it's easier, I guess, but is also a very classic KI move. So yes Earth Walker Trained is a 4 round windup for 5 pips, while Kraken is a 2 round for 3 pips.

      Doesn't explain why Vampire costs more than Earth Walker in happiness to cast though! Pretty sure they just throw darts at a dartboard for this stuff

    4. #54
      Caspeen's Avatar
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      Re: Deckathalon Pets

      Another Deckathalon in the books (well, for me!) and more lessons learned.
      First, Vampire Trained is an AWESOME talent. With my pet Sonya [Steal Charm, Infallible, Ward Wrecker, Vampire, and Pigsie from my Jewel) and a level 9th Deck I was able to farm 1 - 8.2, and with a level 10 deck 1 - 9.1. The going is slow, so very very slow, but by using Vampire as often as I could and passing a TON I was able make it to level 4 using just 3 cards. And while health got a bit low a few times, having all the consistent heals from Vampire allowed me to go with only one MC heal.

      Second lesson learned, Will Cast talents are OP, but they are also crazy expensive! Holy cow - EACH cast of Vampire costs 50 happiness which is one level 9 Mega Snack! On one of my regular runs I would have to refill half way through, so each run cost about 35 - 40 level 8 Mega Snacks. OUCH!

      And as to Will Cast talents being OP, I really thing it was a mistake to allow these pets into the Deckathalon. Success in these events has always been on the DECK but now it fells like Pets are more important as the first page of the leaderboard is dominated by players using Will Cast pets.

      Another thing I learned, Ward Wrecker was a bust. Going 1 - 9.1 it cast a MAX of one time, and on at least one run it never cast. And these guys shield a ton! It was awesome when it did cast but anything that casts less often than Pigsie is not worth having.

      On my last few runs I replaced Sonya with a pet that had Steal Charm, Vampire, Fairy, Spritely, Energizing Battery, and Brace from my jewel and although Brace seemed to cast less often than aura's in general, the additional heals meant health was never an issue.

      Based on this I have two new "ideal" pets

      Amplify / Infallible / Empowerment plus Vampire, Steal Charm, Cloud 'o Bugs, Queen Sprite, Fairy or Pigsie from a jewel

      Or

      Amplify / Infallible / Empowerment plus Kraken, Steal Charm, Queen Sprite, Energizing Battery, Fairy or Pigsie from a jewel

      I'm really undecided about my auras. I LOVE Empowerment for the extra pips, but it's useless to have on lower levels since you never get hit with 4 pip hits. Infallible is awesome, but the pierce is useless if the enemy doesn't use shields which, outside of Ice Deckathalon, is most of them. But Amplify...that is always useful, and given how sometimes you can hit but missing killing by less than 20 health....oh, the pain!

      Thoughts?

      Casp
      Last edited by Caspeen; 8-16-20 at 12:33:31 PM.

    5. #55
        richardDkht is offline Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Deckathalon Pets

      In my opinion, you should consider having only one aura of your choice and a will cast, and keep the rest with heals.

      Why:

      auras don't stack, but they often get triggered together. So one replace the other, and basicly you are wasting a talent for a very rare chance of having a bIt more aura on you (which cast already pretty often). Also they seem to always cast in the same order, which means you will always have the same one on, 90% of time.

      Heals have individually low trigger chance, but the more heals you have, the more global chances you get.
      Not only because they trigger individually, but also because of how RNG works; to be random, it needs to address big and small numbers pretty closely most of the time, so basicly since each heal is triggered individually, each failed trigger during the same round (= same event count) increases the chances of a successful trigger for the next.

      It's basicly like saying if you pull a coin in the air, you have 50% chances of getting head. But if you pull it 3 times in a row (=same event count), you have 50% probability chances in total to have at least one head, which means 3x50=150% chances for one head (vs 300%). So if after two pulls (200%) you had 2x50% tails, the remaining 150% would be a sure head. Which roughly means that, before starting to pull, 3rd chance is higher if first two don't trigger.

      Of course statistics tells you each time it's one chance out of two. But since RNG is simulating randomness, it is somehow obliged to reproduce the probability effect. Hence you are advantaged if you have several events in a same count.

      Transposing to heals, whose trigger values are hidden, let's imagine each had 5% (we know they are different, it's for explanation's sake) : if you have 5, that means that you get 25% chance of triggering a heal during a hit round. Which means, on average, every 4th damage you receive, at least one heal will trigger.

      Try it out, you will see that a pet with a single heal almost doesn't trigger in floors 1-5 (I believe from 5.1 on the triggering chance is increased). And one with 5 heals will trigger almost every floor.

      As of the will cast, well, I said it before, but it's like having a bicycle in a marathon, so of course you want one of them unless like me you gave up on this event.

      A word on auras: Evaluate what you want vs what you need.

      I find fortify to be useful to prevent those armor piercing and, in ice deckathalon, to greatly reduce the DoT damage. Armor piercing is an issue because it substract from a defense which is a % (so a division). When you substract from a % the damage is highly increased, so saving 15 of that % seems worthwhile.

      On the other hand, free pips allow to cast one or two rounds earlier, which means less chances to be damaged as well. And yes, on floors 1-4 you will not use it - but do you need it? Enemies are weak enough that it isn't needed, specially with the lvl 10 decks that prevent loads of damage.

      As of amplify, when compared to a spell with an extra pip, i think the extra pip is more interesting because once you have it, you can use it any time and dont need to wait. You can't count on amplify for the sure kill because if it doesn't trigger when you need it, you'll just have to wait or waste other cards instead.
      A good calculator allows to know if the enemy will die before you cast, or if you need to add blades or traps to the base spell; this can be done before entering the dungeon since enemy health doesn't change, and then you set up the deck accordingly and you are ready to go without the need for amplify.
      To avoid the damage amplitude of some cards (like fire bird..) you can settle for the average damage cards instead (think krokomummy). There is always a card with a fixed damage as an alternative, although a little more expensive than the basic spell.

      just my 2cts.

    6. #56
      Caspeen's Avatar
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      Re: Deckathalon Pets

      Quote Originally Posted by <strong>richardDkht View Post
      In my opinion, you should consider having only one aura of your choice and a will cast, and keep the rest with heals.
      Sounds like you'd approve of something like Amber?



      Tried out a few pets for this last Deckathalon (Death).

      First, started with Madison....



      ....but MC Balanceblade was pretty much a dud - cast ONCE on my run. So switched up to Henry...



      ...but underwhelmed by Infallible and missed Amplify. After a while realized I was getting close to Death far too often so went totally defensive with Oscar....



      ...but ouch, that extra round between Frozen Kraken and Vampire was killer!

      So I finally settled on Zeus.



      In a perfect world Zeus would have gotten Energizing Battery so that I could equip a Fairy Friend jewel to have a real 3 heal pet, but since Fairy Friend manifested I had to go with Pigsie - for sure a better heal but soooooo rare.

      Although Steal Charm really let me down this Deckathalon - once went an ENTIRE tower without a single steal! - I'm still infatuated with it. As such, I think Zeus will be my default Deckathalon pet. I will still probably go with Oscar for the Life Deckathalon, and might play with a Will Cast Link pet, but otherwise, Zeus if about perfect.

      For Madison, that is.

      For my minions who do nothing but farm runes, Jasper is my new fave.



      Since my support staff wizards are all about farming runes as fast as possible, I replaced my Will Cast with Cloud 'o Bugs. Fun!

      Casp

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