• Aggressive
  • Alienated
  • Amazed
  • Amazed2
  • Amused2
  • Angelic
  • Angry2
  • Apelike
  • Artistic
  • Balanced
  • Bashful
  • Blah
  • Bookworm
  • Bored
  • Breezy
  • Brooding
  • Busy
  • Chatty
  • Cheeky
  • Cheerful
  • Cloud 9
  • Cold
  • Confused
  • Cool2
  • Creative
  • Curious
  • Cynical
  • Daring
  • Devilish
  • Disagree
  • Doh
  • Doubtful
  • Drama Queen
  • Dreaming
  • Elated
  • Energetic
  • Fiendish
  • Fine
  • Gloomy
  • Goofy
  • Grumpy2
  • Happy2
  • Hot
  • In Pain
  • Innocent2
  • Insomnious
  • Inspired
  • Lonely
  • Lucky
  • Lurking
  • Mellow
  • Mischievious
  • Monday Blues
  • Musical
  • Nerdy
  • No Mood
  • Not Amused
  • Notworthy
  • Paranoid
  • Pensive
  • Predatory
  • Procrastinating
  • Psychedelic
  • Relaxed
  • Sad2
  • Scared
  • Scurvy
  • Shocked
  • Sick
  • Sleeping
  • Sleepy
  • Sluggish
  • Sneaky2
  • Snobbish
  • Spooky
  • Sporty
  • Starving
  • Stressed
  • Sunshine
  • Sweet Tooth
  • Thinking
  • Torn
  • Twisted
  • Vegged Out
  • Volatile
  • Woot
  • Worried
  • Yee Haw
  • Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Arrg!
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh!
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • At Work
  • Eating
  • Editing
  • Lagging
  • Netflix
  • No Status
  • PC Gaming
  • PS Gaming
  • Raging
  • Sleeping2
  • Steam Gaming
  • Trolling
  • XBox Gaming
  • Youtuber
  • Zombies
  • Results 1 to 4 of 4
    1. #1
      Wolf Legendthief's Avatar
        Wolf Legendthief is online now Journeyman Wizard

      • Wolf Legendthief's Wizard Stats
        •  Wizard's Name:
        •  Wolf Legendthief
        •  Wizard's Level:
        •  120
        •  World:
        •  Mirage
        •  Wizard's School:
        •  Death
        •  Pet's Name:
        •  God's Pet
        •  Pet's Type:
        •  Divine
      Status: Best Death PvP Player
       
      Mood:
      Spooky
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2013
      Posts
      366
      PvP Tournaments Won
      0
      Thanks (Given)
      77
      Thanks (Received)
      295
      Gold
      97.00

      Backlash mechanic needs inclusion

      If you use Shadow Shrike and use certain spells like Shift Greenoak then you will notice that your backlash is reduced two times as opposed to the regular one time.

      Different schools have different spells that also feature this mechanic.

      Fire: Fire Beetle, FFA, Brimstone,
      Ice: Icebird
      Storm: Thunderbird
      Life: Life Scarab
      Myth: Rat Illusionist, Yellow Troll, Keeper,
      Death: Death Scarab
      Balance: Gaze, Savage Paw

      However, there are actually a lot of spells that don't have reduce backlash 2x when they should. Most notably are the pet card spells like Red Ghost, Storm Beetle, and Brown Spider. In fact, not only do they not reduce backlash 2x, they don't reduce backlash at all! These are the most important utility spells that our schools get from pets and the fact that you gain nothing from it in Shrike makes your combo less impactful. It must be a coincidence that this also happens for the lower tier schools (Death/Storm).

      My suggestion is to allow pet card spells to receive this mechanic of reducing backlash 2x or at least once because we aren't able to fully utilize the spells given to us from our pets but a fire wizard can spam beetle in Shrike and remove backlash multiple times while keeping up tempo. I think this change would give Death and Storm more utility to at least compete with the other schools while also encouraging more life wizards to hit and stray away from jading.
      Last edited by Wolf Legendthief; 8-13-19 at 5:04:24 PM.

    2. #2
      Ravino.'s Avatar
        Ravino. is offline Grandmaster Wizard

      • Ravino.'s Wizard Stats
        •  Wizard's Name:
        •  Jonathan DeathShield
        •  Wizard's School:
        •  Death
        •  Pet's Name:
        •  Grim Blue
        •  Pet's Type:
        •  Ianthine Spectre
      Status: Animating an undead dino
       
      Mood:
      No Mood
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
      Posts
      2,259
      PvP Tournaments Won
      0
      Thanks (Given)
      2965
      Thanks (Received)
      3270
      Gold
      986.82

      Re: Backlash mechanic needs inclusion

      Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Legendthief View Post
      If you use Shadow Shrike and use certain spells like Shift Greenoak then you will notice that your backlash is reduced two times as opposed to the regular one time.

      Different schools have different spells that also feature this mechanic.

      Fire: Fire Beetle, FFA, Brimstone,
      Ice: Icebird
      Storm: Thunderbird
      Life: Life Scarab
      Myth: Rat Illusionist, Yellow Troll, Keeper,
      Death: Death Scarab
      Balance: Gaze, Savage Paw

      However, there are actually a lot of spells that don't have reduce backlash 2x when they should. Most notably are the pet card spells like Red Ghost, Storm Beetle, and Brown Spider. In fact, not only do they not reduce backlash 2x, they don't reduce backlash at all! These are the most important utility spells that our schools get from pets and the fact that you gain nothing from it in Shrike makes your combo less impactful. It must be a coincidence that this also happens for the lower tier schools (Death/Storm).

      My suggestion is to allow pet card spells to receive this mechanic of reducing backlash 2x or at least once because we aren't able to fully utilize the spells given to us from our pets but a fire wizard can spam beetle in Shrike and remove backlash multiple times while keeping up tempo. I think this change would give Death and Storm more utility to at least compete with the other schools while also encouraging more life wizards to hit and stray away from jading.
      The treasure card versions of Red Ghost and Brown Spider do give -20 Backlash when used, I'm not sure about Storm Beetle but this is a problem regarding pet item cards, not the spells themselves. Much like how pet cards and maycasts bypass pre-Darkmoor boss cheats, they also bypass shadow-self and shadow creatures spell "detectors", for good or ill.

      For example, you can also observe Sentinel has no reaction to the Sacrifice card in the Rotting Dryad pet which is supposed to give + 20 Backlash.

      I agree with you in making pet cards be recognized by shadow, I'd personally love that! But there may be a technical issue there: maycasts. Since both pet cards AND maycasts are ignored by bosses and shadow, I wonder if enabling one would also enable the other... If true, that would explain why KI kept the entirety of pet spells away from shadow.

      Having maycasts interfere with shadow is a terrible idea, and it would kill any advantage we might gain from being able to use pet item cards. But this is definitely a suggestion worth passing on to devs - at least for clarification as to why pet item cards don't work with shadow.



      On another note, the issue of x2 Backlash is exclusive to Shrike. If you use Trickster you'll note there's a cap in how much Backlash reduction you can gain per round - even if you use a spell with 2 "likes", the reduction will only be -10 in each round. If I'm not mistaken, there was even an explicit mention in Test's updates about such a cap being implemented to Trickster.

      Instead of reviewing a bunch of spells to balance which cards should or shouldn't enable x2 reduction, it would be much simpler to implement the same cap to Shadow Shrike.
      This way schools like Fire and Balance couldn't cheat their backlash with double-effect spells - the convenient advantage provided by their learned and TC spells would be eliminated.

      ~R
      Last edited by Ravino.; 8-13-19 at 7:22:08 PM.


    3. #3
      Wolf Legendthief's Avatar
        Wolf Legendthief is online now Journeyman Wizard

      • Wolf Legendthief's Wizard Stats
        •  Wizard's Name:
        •  Wolf Legendthief
        •  Wizard's Level:
        •  120
        •  World:
        •  Mirage
        •  Wizard's School:
        •  Death
        •  Pet's Name:
        •  God's Pet
        •  Pet's Type:
        •  Divine
      Status: Best Death PvP Player
       
      Mood:
      Spooky
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2013
      Posts
      366
      PvP Tournaments Won
      0
      Thanks (Given)
      77
      Thanks (Received)
      295
      Gold
      97.00

      Re: Backlash mechanic needs inclusion

      Quote Originally Posted by Ravino. View Post
      The treasure card versions of Red Ghost and Brown Spider do give -20 Backlash when used, I'm not sure about Storm Beetle but this is a problem regarding pet item cards, not the spells themselves. Much like how pet cards and maycasts bypass pre-Darkmoor boss cheats, they also bypass shadow-self and shadow creatures spell "detectors", for good or ill.
      The entire post is about pet cards along with some item cards. Red Ghost treasure cards are extremely rare along with the other two so the times it is used is so insignificant that it doesn't even matter compared to the 3 item cards you get every game from your pet.
      I agree with you in making pet cards be recognized by shadow, I'd personally love that! But there may be a technical issue there: maycasts. Since both pet cards AND maycasts are ignored by bosses and shadow, I wonder if enabling one would also enable the other... If true, that would explain why KI kept the entirety of pet spells away from shadow.
      This is not a coding issue. You can make one work individually while ignoring the other. May casts still reduce backlash when you're in Shrike unless they recently changed that. Meaning I can get a may cast Judgement from my wand and be able to reduce backlash by an additional 10% from that. I'm assuming they just forgot about pet item cards or for some reason, they decided not to include them in. The latest update to Backlash was allowing drains to reduce backlash so they can certainly do the same for pet item cards and they need to look into all cards to allow it for most other cards too.
      On another note, the issue of x2 Backlash is exclusive to Shrike. If you use Trickster you'll note there's a cap in how much Backlash reduction you can gain per round - even if you use a spell with 2 "likes", the reduction will only be -10 in each round. If I'm not mistaken, there was even an explicit mention in Test's updates about such a cap being implemented to Trickster.
      Yes, but that doesn't matter. Right now, what matters is that Shrike gives 2x backlash reduction and not all spells are getting the same treatment. The pet item spell cards don't even reduce backlash once which is a major problem that should be fixed before anything else. Once this issue of unfairness is fixed, then we can focus on Trickster.
      Instead of reviewing a bunch of spells to balance which cards should or shouldn't enable x2 reduction, it would be much simpler to implement the same cap to Shadow Shrike.
      Although that would help, that isn't the issue. The issue is that Shrike reduces backlash twice and it is beneficial for some schools like Fire and Balance. Allowing pet item cards to be included into this mechanic would be an indirect buff to Death, Storm and Life and would be something that we need because Death mainly lacks combo and utility. The only argument I see is that it would help Life be even more oppressive combined with their crit heals.

    4. #4
      Ravino.'s Avatar
        Ravino. is offline Grandmaster Wizard

      • Ravino.'s Wizard Stats
        •  Wizard's Name:
        •  Jonathan DeathShield
        •  Wizard's School:
        •  Death
        •  Pet's Name:
        •  Grim Blue
        •  Pet's Type:
        •  Ianthine Spectre
      Status: Animating an undead dino
       
      Mood:
      No Mood
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
      Posts
      2,259
      PvP Tournaments Won
      0
      Thanks (Given)
      2965
      Thanks (Received)
      3270
      Gold
      986.82

      Re: Backlash mechanic needs inclusion

      Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Legendthief View Post
      This is not a coding issue. You can make one work individually while ignoring the other.
      We have no way of knowing that. I was merely pointing out a possible technical limitation out of observed cheat bosses behavior, only a developer could say if what you say is indeed possible in the current build of the game.

      May casts still reduce backlash when you're in Shrike unless they recently changed that. Meaning I can get a may cast Judgement from my wand and be able to reduce backlash by an additional 10% from that.
      Clarification: PET maycasts. Such as Fairy, Balanceblade etc.
      (...) what matters is that Shrike gives 2x backlash reduction and not all spells are getting the same treatment. The pet item spell cards don't even reduce backlash once which is a major problem that should be fixed before anything else.
      (...)
      My point is this issue of unfairness can be fixed by giving Shrike the same treatment as Trickster, eliminating the possibility of a 2x backlash reduction will put all schools on equal terms.

      Combined with the inclusion of pet cards, this would give ALL spells the same treatment.


    Tags for this Thread

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •