Concerned – W101 PvP seems to be dying at the root

[ChoGath]

I originally posted this over at my blog at duelist. I'm cross posting this here for a few reasons:
- I'm hopeful that KI will actually read/notice/act.
- The central PvP community also has good ideas to help this situation.

I’d like to hear about your thoughts and experiences – especially from those who are just starting out (I.e. 1st wizard in pvp and with less than 30 games).

A [month] ago, my youngest daughter and I decided to do some 2v2 together with my balance L76 wizard and her fire L75 wizard. Both of us were using decent pets, but nothing special. No mastery amulets were used. In total, we were dressed in decent, general PvE gear with 35% general resist. Both of us had win/loss records of 0-0 and rank 500. What happened next was shocking to me.

The very 1st game we got paired with a 2x L50 double ice team that was ranked 2500+, with excellent gear, and with excellent pets. We got wrecked in 5 turns - "Gosh, that wasn't much fun." I suggested a few deck changes as we played out the next 4 games, but the outcome did not change. We got paired with similar 2x L50 teams in the 2100+ rank range and were dispatched in 4-5-6 turn disasters. In summary, we ended our 1st adventure together into the current PvP world at the 0-5 mark. We were completely outclassed in terms of gear, pets, and team abilities. Later, my daughter went to the practice arena to try some 1v1. She got paired with another wizard that was nearly immune to fire damage and lost horribly.

Here are my [initial] thoughts on this anonymous 2v2 "noob" experience:

1. There are no more traditional captain, commander, or warlord rank wizards left. Traditionally, wizards came to their rank by (only) playing against their same level of wizards. Their opponents were similarly geared and the competition lasted 30 minutes or so. Everyone would leave with the feeling that better play would change the outcome. Not so today.
2. The skill level of the traditional captain, commander, and warlord ranks are now found at the 300-400-500 ranks of the current ranking system. This means that the average beginner will experience a series of losses, -25 rank for each loss, until they reach the "private" rank of 0-100-200. This "forced" series of losses creates a very negative experience for a beginner and causes a large "inflation" of rank scores on the leader board.
3. There is no clear, straight forward path for a PvP "noob" to overcome the huge gear / pet gap that they are immediately confronted with. Creating a perfect pet has consistently taken about 15-20 mixes for me. I have lots of generous friends with perfect pets, constant gold, and willingness to constantly mix with me to gain the final result. A random PvP "noob" probably won't have this kind of support group. Crafting and Gardening can be done solo, but can be very time consuming. EMPeas, Sunions, Ivy League, and other key plants cost crowns.
4. Even after you overcome the serious gap in gear / pets, you will need to gain the knowledge of how to beat someone 1500-2000 rank points higher than you - a skill you did not need in the traditional rank system until you were already a warlord with warlord style gear. Very high rank, lower level wizards used to be uncommon and were paired against other experienced / skilled wizards. Nowadays, "noob" wizard teams are immediately fed to the 2x L50 double ice or Ice/Life teams that dominate the leader board.

In summary, I can easily see why PvP numbers appear to be down, especially in 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. The "noob" experience is unmercifully negative. The gear/pet gap is enormous. There does not seem to be any reasonable place where a PvP "noob" can grow, mature, and gain experience without constantly being crushed by highly experienced warlords who are 1500+ rank points higher.

As I've reflected more on this experience ...

I’m (slowly?, belatedly?) coming to the conclusion that there is a systemic problem with W101 PvP. I’m currently thinking/researching about this matter, so my thoughts are “in flux”. I don’t think that the problem is isolated to “bad” or “unlucky” levels like L40-49 or L70-79. I’m thinking that the problem is inherent to the long history of W101 PvP itself, which is well documented and explained by [various guide sites] — It is fundamentally unfair/pointless to pit a player who has been a “overlord” since 2009, with optimal gear/pets, against new people who have only been playing for a year or two in the PvE story world. The grim irony for me was this – I knew some of the 2xL50 teams we encountered, knew what tools were needed to beat those team, but those tools were completely foreign to my daughter’s game experience. Even worse, the needed gear/pet/spell tools were completely unavailable to her even if she knew what to look for.
...
Even assuming PvP as pure end game, we need a process to educate and “buff” new PvP players. It’s very off-putting to get destroyed in 4-5-6 turns, get taunted, and end up with a rank lower than whale “stuff”. As Jordan & I (AKA “Stormy Knights”) were moving up towards the 2400-2500 plateau, I had noticed there were some low rank / high level people that we’d beaten, but had played reasonably well. They were in the 300-400 rank range with a win/loss ratio that was not quite even. In the “old” days, these folks would have been at/near the captain rank with positive W/L ratios. How can we change the “Diego training process” to make the new PvP player experience more attractive and useful?

Others reporting similar experiences:

Thanks for this thread. I have a level 33 storm captain who 2v2s with my level 30 storm sister, and we are afraid to do any more matches. The last few matches we tried, we found ourselves up against level 50 + warlords, and there's just no way we could compete. We stopped doing matches because we know how hard it would be to earn back our rank. So, I'll be a captain forever, because I'm afraid to go back into ranked matches, knowing that I will not win, regardless of my awesome pet, gear, deck, spells, or knowledge of the game.

Regarding the pvp experiences of the wizard you quoted in your post: That scenario feels like a beatdown, like someone walked up to a wizard and punched him/her in the face, pushed him/her down to the ground and kicked him/her in the gut. It's terrible, because it feels like the entire match is out of your/my hands, that resistance is futile.

I'm only a Knight. I'm level 56 on my wizard that I use for PvP. I have played 34 times. I don't have the tickets to purchase the PvP gear, at Knight level. In fact, all I could afford was a ring. I have the best crafted gear for that level, and after months of trying to get a good PvP pet, I finally got one that is pretty decent. It certainly doesn't have triple damage or triple proof or triple heals, but it's not a bad pet for people like me just starting out.

So what happens when I go alone? I'll tell you what happens. I get thrown in to the ring with a level 50 Warlord. Where is the 30 level gap there? The person is only 6 levels lower than me, is a Warlord with the Glendemming gear, and KI thinks that's a fair match up? In what world do I have a shot at winning that? That is the kind of people I get paired up with...and it doesn't make PvP fun. As stated, I don't expect to win every match, or even the majority of them, but in no way is a level 50 Warlord to a level 56 Knight a "comparable" pairing.
...

I experienced this with my twins, to the point that I may never PVP in Ranked.

This was in the first age though, so I'm not sure if things have changed for the better or the worse.

One ended up at 14 - 28 and the other at 6 - 23, before quitting.

They were long gone by the time the second age came.

Since they ran at near maximum level it wasn't as easy for them.
...

Prior to my death project on duelist, I had completed a total combined number of games just shy of 250, this is across Age 1 and Age 2. Half of those where done between levels 8-12 and the others at level 30. That was the highest I had ever pvp'ed on. I remember reading through guides and posts and wondering whether any player could play at exalted and what their exp would be like.

In hindsight if I had tried to do exalted on my death by myself I don't believe that I would've gone passed 10 matches. Its as simple as that.
...

As I read through the posts, I thought I would share my "noob" exp both as a parent watching their kid try to play and also trying pvp for themselves ...

I watched my 12 yr old get frustrated when he lost time after time several years ago as he started pvping on a lvl 60 fire for the first time. He left the game and hasn't come back once. He is now 14 and plays most other games, like LOL, Whenever I try to convince him to come back his standard response is that it is broken and not worth it

When you spoke about your daughter Cho it resonated. My feelings on this is that those who have been playing for years really dont understand how despondent and demoralizing pvp has become for kids as well as adults, unless they are there watching them play for the first time. Myself, I will never walk into the arena again, even with Gor, the duelist team and a community of vastly experienced players helping me on my exalted, its not an experience I ever want to repeat.

I've done some additional research here at central, looking for similar situations / commentary. Here are some threads that I thought were relevant:

8 wins, 18 losses: PvP for a mid-level player just starting out on PvP
Seen this Before?
Unfair match-ups are ruining PvP
Mid-level PvP is NOT FAIR.
I am a Private in PvP...
Ranked PVP is unfair???
And yet another unfair PVP Battle
Low level Warlord fighting Magus+
Skill range? Yeah right.Unfair..
lvl 49 vs lvl 95
PVP Matching is weird.
Is PvP this bad or is it just me?
PvP Needs to be Fixed.
Ranked PvP rant

I’d like to hear about your thoughts and experiences – especially from those who are just starting out (I.e. 1st wizard in pvp and with less than 30 games).

In the "old days", the gear gap between "noobs" and veterans was not nearly so great. The main sources of pain seem to be with resistance, followed by damage boost, with healing boost being a 3rd area of disadvantage. I did a quick look at the ongoing 2v2 matches this afternoon. All of the noob-versus-veteran match ups were 25-35% resistance against 50-55% resistance. Obviously, skill is part of the equation too ...

What do you think would help even the "field" for incoming new players?

Volume of players and number of games available are a small shadow of their former glory. My L39 Storm was able to garner over 1300 wins during the "Puppet Wars". Literally, I was winning an average of 2 games EVERY DAY - Most of these were gained in 3v3 and 4v4. Time-of-day and day-of-week didn't diminish the volume of games to be had. Folks who are new to the arena cannot imagine the volume of duels in the 2012/2013 time frame.

People have massively voted with their feet and left the arena. We certainly need to turn this around as a community.

My suggestions / ideas to help close the Gear/Pet gaps are:

• Drop the rank requirements to buy the PvP gear. Good players (i.e. warlords) are rewarded plenty when they win by earning more tickets quicker. Participating in KI tournaments gets lots of tickets - winning currently gives bonuses too. The current commander/warlord rank requirements "lock in" the huge advantage to veterans and penalize the new people.

• Create some additional set of Diego training missions - a mission after each 5 duels played (not won) up to (4x5) 20 duels played. After each 5 games, reward 1 Prickly bear seed and a crafting recipe for one piece of the commander gear, with the 4th reward being a new "Battle Cat" pet and extra prickly bear seed. Have the new "Battle Cat" pre-set to manifest Proof-Sprite-Defy. Make commander gear usable in PvE. These missions would grant useful stuff to all, regardless of their PvP skill. The Diego text / voice tutorial could explain the need to craft and get good pets to be successful.

• Make the captain, commander, and warlord rank badges permanent. This would be the "status" symbols that everyone would strive towards.

• Make a separate PvP queue for folks that have a rank <= commander and have a combined resistance of <= 40%. The key point here is to allow new people to learn steadily against new people who are reasonably similar in gear stats. Everyone would have a better, more even chance to win a decent set of games.

• Make the current PvP queue for folks that have a rank >= commander. Leave the gear/pet options as they are - completely unlimited. Having a 3000+ rank against your fellow warlords would be a true accomplishment of dueling ability.

The key point here is that the commander gear is nearly useless these days, except for dueling < L49. Making commander gear useful to all, both PvP and PvE, would provide a nice treat. Getting a decent pet would be useful to all. Providing a decent base set of PvP able gear to most everyone would help the PvP community in a big way.

Notable debate points:

So in your proposal, it would be fine for her level 67 myth with rank of 1612 to be paired against a level 100 storm in Darkmoor gear and new spell with a 900 rank? Sorry Cho, I have been known to agree with you on many issues, but this one, no...I think we would agree on the fact that the PvP arena has been broken in many ways for a long, long time and we've lost many well known players because of it. If KI would take into consideration many of the old recommendations, I do believe we'd see some of the older players consider returning, and bring fresh players into the arena; some things I'd like to mention from prior years suggestions (some will be off your OP topic):

Low Level PvP - broken ...

Mid-level PvP - very broken - ...

Leaderboard -
That addition to the game created monsters - for many, it was who could claw and cheat their way to the top both on the rank and tourney sides. We know that much of that was done through exploits that KI did address; what I would be interested to see is if KI did a refresh to the board, maybe say, every month, or every 3 months, if matches have not been played, you drop off the board - wonder how many names we'd see remain?

Gear -
I don't think that KI would even consider allowing crafting of the Commander / Warlord gear - there is crown gear available as well as the fact that once rank is achieved many will do tournament for tickets - this is a cash flow to KI.

Pet -
Again, don't think KI is going to make available a pet with a base talent, say Spell Proof - that's already available in a Sea Dragon, again crowns; and as stated above, hatching pets keeps players in game.

Increase training available from Diego -
This I see as a viable assistance to newer players.

As a player with 4 accounts, I can tell you that 2 of my PvP accounts have been inactive (no sub) for over 6 months, 1 other account is only active because there is a level 100 on it farming Darkmoor, and my 4th is all level 100, also farming Darkmoor; the arena needs a serious overhaul that is long overdue.

I'm trying to focus on the "noob" experience, since it's impossible to resolve all the problems at once. I believe that the lack of new players is forcing the current (imperfect) match making system to make bad matches. The current match making system is forced to pair a small (and dwindling) number of players who have persisted in dueling - a population that is clustered around the key power levels of L20, L30, L50, L60, and L90-100. This population is also clustered by rank plateaus of 1000-1500, 1800-2200, and 2400-2800.

This proposal attempts to protect new players of all levels in the <= commander queue, while giving these new duelists a decent set of gear / pet. In the "old" days, there were legions of young kids that never became warlords, but they were content - they got to win half the time playing against others who were similarly geared and had the same skill level. This proposal protects the casual duelists of all levels from the (current) brutality of the Warlord queue.

This proposal actually will help the matchmaking for warlords too, but there is an underlying problem that needs to be fixed - Inflated rank scores due to queue watching and preying on higher level "noob" players. The anonymous queue has resolved one of the causes of rank inflation - you can see this on the leader board now - the highest level ranks are falling. It's no longer possible to "cherry pick" your targets with a "hard set" or bias your deck with a "soft set" based on the schools you see active in queue.

The biggest reason for rank inflation has been the unrelenting beat-down suffered by "noob" players at the hands of warlords. A new player starts at a rank of 500, with 35%-ish resist and a mediocre pet. The current pairing system sees the "noob" rank as filling in the gaps of rank, so proceeds to pair the "noob" against the warlords that are 10-20 levels lower. Warlords simply feast on these unfortunates, harvesting their rank points until they quit or they bounce off the minimum of 100-200. Even at the bottom, there is no rest - the ranks of 100-200-300 will get paired against warlords who are 30+ levels lower. Even these "fair" matches against 100-200 ranked "noobs" continue to feed the rank inflation of lower level warlords. The current "meta" for gaining ultra-high rank is to build a very tanky-high damage team, play control until the "noobs" pip exhaust themselves, and then deliver a massive blade stacked OHKO. It's no accident that Ice L50 is highly represented in the current leader board.

This proposal would (mostly) resolve this rank inflation by eliminating the 500-400-300-200-100 "noob" rank food. Warlords would have to gain rank by beating other warlords. The sum total of rank points would remain constant and the distribution of rank would be smoothed out by both skill (against warlords) and levels. With skill being equal, L100 warlords will always beat L60 warlords. The resulting warlord zero-sum-game is will create natural plateaus of rank by level - which forces L100s together, L60s together, L50s together, etc. It's only when the L50s are forced together in the same rank band, with no ability to inflate, that you will get L50 warlords consistently paired against other L50 warlords.

In summary, I agree with Nick on the root of the current problem

Also worth noting that a lot of this trouble is fallout from more experienced players clinging to lower level PvP for a more stable meta and usually for the super inflated rank possibilities, powered by Glendemming and Tournament gear.

And there’s still complaints from that crowd regularly, it’s nuts. “I have 2000 rank and I keep getting matched with people I can’t beat!”. Meanwhile the higher leveled “newbie” players are being fleeced for their rank, and listening to tirades when they get a lucky win against a much better equipped opponent.

This proposal protects the "noobs" from being fleeced, lets the "noobs" grow to be competitive, and lets the actual warlords fix for themselves the match making problem (they unwittingly?) created with inflated ranks.

But is there really a solution to this? Eliminating/minimizing the P2W aspect would devastate the older paying players. Is there really a way to satisfy both sides?

Lets review what is being suggested and see if it's a win-lose situation.

The biggest P2W items are purchasing hoarder packs to get key wands and "dropped" spells before you can craft them. This proposal does nothing to hurt those who have bought the cool wands and have some early spells.

No one uses the commander gear over L49, so giving this away hurts none of the P2W folks. Making commander gear usable in PvE hurts no P2W interest, while giving lots of people a reason to try out PvP for 20 games.

Giving away a useful, ancient level pet with some PB seeds hurts none of the P2W folks. Arguably, this is already moderately easy to do with gold / Starfish pets / and regular snacks.

Making a separate queue for new players doesn't hurt the P2W folks either. Assuming the P2W folks are actually warlords, this arguably helps them by getting "Luck noob spammers" out of the warlord queue.

Overall, the serious P2W folks are on the leader board with ranks 1800+. Their rankings are undiminished by this proposal. The new duelists that they encounter from this proposal will still be gravely under powered to them in comparison.

for the rank requirement, aren't those gear made specifically to counter battling much higher levels who has better health and spell capabilities? tc only go so far and can't be multipled with reshuffle. some higher level spells don't have tc form. if the higher level without the necessary rank can get the gear and face the lower level, how is that fair? experience does not equate the 30+ level gap.

No, the commander gear (as opposed to the L50+ glendemming armor or latest dungeon dropped gear) is not the "best" gear. It was not created for battling higher levels. The commander gear was introduced when the level cap was L45-50. It's 4-5 year old stuff that most folks don't use any more. The proposed "Battle Cat" at the ancient (3rd) level with Proof-Sprite-Defy is no where near the "best" pet.

What the commander mission crafting "gifts" do is partially close the resistance, accuracy, and power gap. What the commander mission pet "gift" does is to partially close the resistance and healing gap, plus provide a solid base pet for mixing.

The need for hoarder pack wands and spells still remains. The need for a "perfect" pet, tailored to your deck/gear strategy, still remains. The need to grind for high level dungeon gear still remains.

while it is nice to give those just starting out a helping hand to make their experience better, i don't think things should just be handed to them to make their battles easier. everyone at one point or another, started out with no pets and no commander/warlord gear. those are the things people earn and work for. if someone don't put forth the time and effort, then they don't really deserve it. by that, i mean farming for the best gear available for their level and taking time to create a decent pet.

irl, if someone go to an interview with no preparation (not reading up on strategies/doing research) and wearing t shirt and jeans (bad gear and pets), i can guarantee that that they won't get the job. should the company lower their standards so that person gets the job? no. (which is essentially what the drop rank requirement and pet thing is.)

really, the problem here with these higher level getting slaughtered is because they don't take time to get the best gear available for them at the time or work on pets. and they rush in head first without a strategy. and giving them an easy way out is not the solution. which is why i think the more tutorials and/or those missions is the best solution.

This analogy is flawed and leads to perverse conclusions. The real analogy today is this - A new person answers an "Ad" from Diego for janitor. The "Ad" does not mention any dress requirements (no gear, pets) or need for pre-bought tools (wands, spells). The new PvP candidate is immediately interviewed by Senior Vice Presidents, who have perfect gear, pets, spells, and ranks 2200+. The new person, who "applied" for janitor, is destroyed for 20 games because he/she is not dressed like a Senior Vice President. The actual requirements of being a "janitor" are never discussed. The normal promotion path from janitor to shift supervisor is not discussed. The whole situation is completely overwhelmed by the Senior VP dress "code". What sane person would ever stay as an employee of this situation / company?

People trying out PvP for the 1st time are simply seeking to see if its fun and if they can improve their game. In the old days, when there were lots of PvP players, the new duelers would be paired against fellow beginners, who had the same PvE gear - similar resistance, power, and accuracy. Deck, card play, and Training Point strategy were primary. Squeezing gear advantage came later.

Originally, I had picked fire as my 2nd school and death as my 3rd school, but had no real plan. I didn't have feign and didn't have tower shield, so I was sorely underpowered. I struggled badly until I found the PvP and Balance forums. I went to the stork and bought back my training points so that I could train death properly to feign and ice properly to tower shield.

My game improved immediately, but then I hit a plateau on the border of Captain rank. Many around the captain rank have a set plan of cards they are going to play. They often build up for a huge, one hit blowout ... blade-hex-feign-anothertrap-anotherblade-etc. ... finally pull the trigger & mushroom cloud. I originally had a deck that was huge, with every possible card for every possible situation. I had lots of heals, pixies mostly, because if I lived, I had to have an instant fix. My answer at the time was to trim my deck down and focus a bit on what I wanted to do. I added 4x weakens (2x 25% and 2x 30% from necklace) and tightened my kill sequence to the standard 25% blade, 30% hex, 70% feign, then pull the trigger on judgment. I still had lots of cards and lots of pixies, but I was moving up.

I hit another plateau on the border of Warlord rank. These guys were beating me like a drum. It seemed like I'd barely begun to play in a duel, but was already mostly dead, was out of pips trying to heal, and they were trash talking about how much a noob I was as they delivered the death blow. Ok, fine ... I'll have to adapt.

The climb from private to captain/commander, in the L50 cap days, was about training points and deck play. Gear upgrade, plus more experience, was the key to moving beyond warlord.

This proposal simply provides a supportive environment that approximates the old training/learning with other "janitors". This proposal makes the "noob" experience similar to what happened in the L50 cap days.

[JinZah]

Maybe part of the problem is that you're hopping in to PvP at level 75. Try starting a new character, and dedicating some time for each play session to PvP as you level. I think you'll find the experience to be night and day, in so far as you're learning to PvP without being thrown up against uber-teams, and down ranked warlords.

[GraceBear]

I remember when pvp used to be all about who had the best strategies... now it's all about who has the best pets and gear

[TIMMEH]

Maybe part of the problem is that you're hopping in to PvP at level 75. Try starting a new character, and dedicating some time for each play session to PvP as you level. I think you'll find the experience to be night and day, in so far as you're learning to PvP without being thrown up against uber-teams, and down ranked warlords.

The OP in this situation is well versed in PVP and is an overlord lol. He is looking for feedback of the PVP system from beginners to try and get KI to take notice that the matching system creates a negative experience to new PVP players and basically makes them quit before they begin to get better.

[Jeremy5511]

I think atm pvp is empty mostly because most are still farming darkmoor gear thats one thing but it only covers exalted , and when exalted wizards like my self have done my ranking long time ago , but i do pvp for fun never minding the rank , what keeps me out of arena is over powered exalted pvp where it came down to almost no strategy anymore just critical , luck who goes first , luck who attacks first ect , which in turn makes you lose allot of matches and doesnt reflect your actual skill . The team pvp is all but wiped out in late 2013 /early 2014 had ton of fun doing 4v4 /3v3 matches at top level and grandmaster , magus .I think some people are scared to lose the rank they already have and avoid arena for that reason , others don't find it fun over how bad put downs can get form players who come watch the match and poke rude comments .THis is but a few reason off the top of my mind , but the main is KI , think Ki has simply left arena behind , to make pvp stable Ki should look at central tournaments and use some of the rules / info to balance and update pvp arena .

[Adder]

I love this thread.
PvP has always been one of the loves of the game for me but after recently coming back and creating a character specifically for PvP I am honestly hesitant to start.
I've seen this while starting out with new characters with PvP, I've seen this with friends starting out, I see this in teams all the time and it's seriously baffling to see how downhill PvP has gone in the past couple years.

The problem I feel like is that the PvP system is constantly trying to put you in a match and when it can't find one it sticks you in the closest one of whatever sort of calculations it does. So even though you might be a level 50 Private, the next current "fairest" match it can find are 2500 rank Magus'.
I feel like what KI needs to do is somehow make it so there are almost PvP settings. The auto setting would obviously be that you can't go out of a certain level/rank range and if you can't find a match then you can't find a match. I feel like that would help a lot of people who are new at PvP. If you're more experienced and don't mind a level/rank gap then you can obviously override those settings and tell the game, "hey I don't mind taking on these harder matches."

ETA: Just realized this is kind of like how Practice PvP works but with the rank added on. You can set a certain level and rank range and only the people within that range can be paired with you.

[IridianShadowweaver]

Cho,

Thanks for this thread. I have a level 33 storm captain who 2v2s with my level 30 storm sister, and we are afraid to do any more matches. The last few matches we tried, we found ourselves up against level 50 + warlords, and there's just no way we could compete. We stopped doing matches because we know how hard it would be to earn back our rank. So, I'll be a captain forever, because I'm afraid to go back into ranked matches, knowing that I will not win, regardless of my awesome pet, gear, deck, spells, or knowledge of the game.

Regarding the pvp experiences of the wizard you quoted in your post: That scenario feels like a beatdown, like someone walked up to a wizard and punched him/her in the face, pushed him/her down to the ground and kicked him/her in the gut. It's terrible, because it feels like the entire match is out of your/my hands, that resistance is futile.


It's pretty sad, really. The arena will soon be home to only warlords of all levels, scrapping out an advantage over one another.

** Cho's post got me thinking, so I wrote this: http://www.wizard101central.com/foru...hy-I-Don-t-PvP


Regards,

Iridian

[Jeremy5511]

It's pretty sad, really. The arena will soon be home to only warlords of all levels, scrapping out an advantage over one another.


Regards,

Iridian

thats a very good point , i'm a warlord on all my wizards and feel like a noob when i go to arena now , its become a turn off for people who have skill and ones that don't try it once and dont dare to go again , thats just not good , sad .Imagine how people with less then perfect gear and less expirience feel once they try to have some fun doing pvp , win few matches ect , but instead they get beaten down win one match lose 1o and get rude comments along with it , just sad how poorly balanced pvp is .

[Flux]

I would consider myself a PvP Noob, and I can verify, it is like that. I'm an exalted at like, 250 rank facing 60-75 warlords, who DESTROY me within 10 rounds.

[Grumpy Cat]

I used to do pvp a lot more and had my mid level ice and life wizards to overlord, but that was probably in the time of of the 50 level cap. Prefect gear and pets didn't do anything, so wasn't honestly that hard if you had some idea of what you were doing.

I had taken a 3 year break from this, and came back at sometime the beginning of 2014. I had started a new ice character that had decent gear and stats along with an okay pet, although it wasn't the commander good type. I believe the first game was with a level 16 overlord who had full commander gear and a good pvp pet. Yeah didn't win there. Not entirely sure why I kept doing matches after that, but the end result was a record of like 10-15. Not planning on doing anymore pvp for now....