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    1. #1
        rosaphile is offline Novice Wizard
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      How to spend training points for PVE

      I play odd hours and like to be able to solo most everything. I don't like PVP and don't plan to do any. I also have the philosophy that generally speaking the best offense is a good defense, so I rarely use shields, but I have a feeling it's going to keep getting tougher as I level up (I'm level 30 now) so open to suggestion on that. I have not been using TCs but again, if that's the best option for a particular spell I'm open to that. Haven't done much crafting yet but plan to.

      That said, how would you suggest I spend training points? Spirit Blades is obvious, and I like having Reshuffle so I can discard freely if needed. Is Life to Satyr necessary? Ice to Tower always seems to be recommended but I'm considering just getting the Storm/Fire shield from Ice and skipping Tower.

      Is there any point in training a secondary school for offensive spells without buying an Amulet? If I were to buy an Amulet, I would think maybe Fire or Ice.... suggestions?

      Thanks!
      Last edited by rosaphile; 10-8-14 at 1:24:21 PM.

    2. #2
      Zarin64's Avatar
        Zarin64 is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Re: How to spend training points for PVE

      I'm exactly in the same boat as you (odd hours, no PvP etc.) and my main character is a level 100 Necromancer, so I guess I'm qualified enough to give advises.

      The main thing about a solo Necromancer is not the training point distribution, though it is very important. You really don't have to spend any points until late Dragonspyre/early Celestia and can still do fine. Early Ice to Volcanic Shield is a good idea, though, as it makes Harvest Lord battle much easier .

      However, your main priorities should be gardening, pet training and crafting. Start gardening to get reagents first - start growing regular and pink dandelions (the latter are crown seeds but drop a lot in Krokotopia), then switch to Fickle Pickle. Takes a lot of energy, but is worth it, especially once you get large area spells in Mooshu and start growing the full 69 plot garden. You might want to grow some stinkweed in between those two to get lots of game gold quickly. This will allow you to get to 125000 for Red Barn Farm much quicker.

      Then, once you have some good amount of reagents, switch to either Prickly Bear Cactus or all kinds of Bread Fruit Bush (or both) to get some Mega-snacks. In addition, you might accumulate some Couch Potatoes while questing in Grizzleheim. This is necessary to be able to train your pets to Epic and Mega without losing your sanity or spending exorbitant amounts of crowns. If you are ready to spend some crowns, consider buying some Evil Magma Peas seeds for the same purpose.

      Crafting is another activity which is a must for every soloing wizard. You'll be able to craft some good resistance and critical block items later in your career - but you need to start gathering reagents quite early to be ready when the time comes. Complementing those resistance items with a Spell-Proof/Spell-Defying pet with attributes close to the max (250) will increase the safety of your fights tremendously.

      Now back to your training points:
      There is no need for a secondary damage school. You won't be able to boost those spells as much as your own, so simply forget about them. You are looking for utility. So here are some plans:
      - Ice to Volcanic, later to Tower (might even skip this second part - seriously)
      - Life to Sprite, or, if you get your hands on Life mastery, to Satyr. Not strictly necessary - your life steal spells should be enough, and then there's Sacrifice. The latter will consume your blades, though, so you are not exactly free to use it anytime.
      - Balance to Weakness. Completely optional for PvE only.
      - Sun to Colossal. This will happen much later in your career, though. Then, in Azteca, you'll get Sharpened Blade and Potent Trap.
      - Star: not strictly necessary, but Fortify might be worth it. Much later on, you will be able to learn Virulence in Azteca.
      - standalone spells: Reshuffle, Vaporize (for those cheating bosses who remove shields), Stun Block (postpone it to late Zafaria/early Avalon when the opposition starts using Medusa). Might also consider Life Trap from the same teacher who trains Reshuffle. You put it before your prism, then, having cast the prism, put up a Death Trap - and all three trigger . Works for Death enemies only, but can be very deadly for Death bosses. (pun intended)

      If you are going for a subscription at any point, consider PvP to get to Sergeant and learn Conviction. You can then skip Stun Block. Such PvP is a matter of opportunity - say, you happen to quest together with someone who seems to be competent. Offer that person to try a couple of matches in 2v2 after you're done with some tough part. My wife did that several times and got to Sergeant very quickly. Of course, you have to show competence as well . Oh, and that's where Vaporize will serve double duty. It will make those hated Earthquakes from opposition (removing all your blades!) much harder to execute .
      Last edited by Zarin64; 10-8-14 at 3:22:03 PM.
      My wizards: Corwin Swiftcatcher (Death), Alexandra Winterflower (Ice), Darby Firebreeze (Fire), Katie Wildheart (Storm), Heather (Life), Sarah LionHeart (Myth).

    3. #3
      Happy Fun Ball's Avatar
        Happy Fun Ball is offline Grandmaster Wizard
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      Re: How to spend training points for PVE

      As for virulence, that's a good spell to use, but you'll have to wait until Azteca to train it. In the meantime, I have a red ghost that has may cast virulence. If you really want, I can hatch it with you. It also has some other talents which might be useful even at your level: death sniper (huge help against fizzling), death dealer, death giver, and pain giver (not manifested yet, but it's in there). It doesn't have resistance because I myself don't really need it, but that virulence really helps when it triggers, which is rather often.
      Last edited by Happy Fun Ball; 10-8-14 at 3:29:29 PM.

    4. #4
      Rayzer's Avatar
        Rayzer is offline Exalted

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      Re: How to spend training points for PVE

      Mine went Ice and Myth with Mutate Minotaur eventually.
      However, I don't use the Myth much anymore, and found it somewhat difficult to find a role until I had sacrifice.

      My kid's went Life to Centaur. Life to Satyr becomes more viable if you're playing with a group, and have an amulet.
      Last edited by Rayzer; 10-8-14 at 3:49:33 PM.
      Thanks to Ashley Frost for the Signature


    5. #5
      firewiz46's Avatar
        firewiz46 is offline Transcendent Wizard

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      Re: How to spend training points for PVE

      Quote Originally Posted by rosaphile View Post
      I play odd hours and like to be able to solo most everything. I don't like PVP and don't plan to do any. I also have the philosophy that generally speaking the best offense is a good defense, so I rarely use shields, but I have a feeling it's going to keep getting tougher as I level up (I'm level 30 now) so open to suggestion on that. I have not been using TCs but again, if that's the best option for a particular spell I'm open to that. Haven't done much crafting yet but plan to.

      That said, how would you suggest I spend training points? Spirit Blades is obvious, and I like having Reshuffle so I can discard freely if needed. Is Life to Satyr necessary? Ice to Tower always seems to be recommended but I'm considering just getting the Storm/Fire shield from Ice and skipping Tower.

      Is there any point in training a secondary school for offensive spells without buying an Amulet? If I were to buy an Amulet, I would think maybe Fire or Ice.... suggestions?

      Thanks!
      Wow - just like me. My level 45 death has trained life to sprite and spirit blade and that is it. I hardly ever even use the sprite spell and really just buy the transmute sprite cards to create the midnight sprite treasures and have those as extra fighting power in my sideboard. I also plan to train fire to the ice/storm blade when I hit celestia & wintertusk (3 pts.) This gives me fire elf to break tower shields with ice bad guys that you can toss off without ruining your set-up (which you do with poison). I think the ice/storm shield is valuable for just one more point. As a side comment, the fire elf spell is the exception to the general rule in that it is more powerful than the treasure card variety and can be enchanted with damage to be even more powerful. I am also considering training ice to the fire/storm shield just to have that shield as well. There are more than enough training points available in game so it is no big deal to spend those extras.

      A lot of people train ice to tower, but personally, I use tower treasure cards that I garden and put as many as I think I will need in my sideboard. I also solo, playing at off hours and use a high defense strategy with all my wizards. Starting at about level 52 with WT gear, you can start buying school-specific high resist gear at the bazaar and can start crafting some of the high resist gear in ZF. At that point, as long as you keep up with your crafting, a high resist strategy becomes easier and easier. I generally get as much resist to the boss as possible and then kill the minion as fast as possible. This absolutely requires a 15% resist pet so with a defensive-solo plan of attack, you must focus on getting your pet in place. With this type of strategy, you can regularly gain 60% - 70% boss resist in ZF, 80% - 90% in AV & AZ and easily achieve 100% resist to one school in KH. When you have this much resist to the boss, you don't need much in the way of shields or heals. Battles can take longer because you're not doing much to improve you're damage multiplier and you need to remember to change gear with every battle.

      'It don't come easy' - Ringo

    6. #6
      Zarin64's Avatar
        Zarin64 is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Re: How to spend training points for PVE

      Oh, yes - I knew I was missing something! Spirit Blade, of course! Thanks, firewiz. I never trained Spirit Trap, but can see why it might be attractive. Definitely helps with bosses and minions who can remove blades, such as Earthquake and Enfeeble.
      My wizards: Corwin Swiftcatcher (Death), Alexandra Winterflower (Ice), Darby Firebreeze (Fire), Katie Wildheart (Storm), Heather (Life), Sarah LionHeart (Myth).

    7. #7
        rosaphile is offline Novice Wizard
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      Re: How to spend training points for PVE

      Thanks for the great replies! I see I have a ton of work from here, which makes me happy.

    8. #8
      firewiz46's Avatar
        firewiz46 is offline Transcendent Wizard

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      Re: How to spend training points for PVE

      Quote Originally Posted by Zarin64 View Post
      Oh, yes - I knew I was missing something! Spirit Blade, of course! Thanks, firewiz. I never trained Spirit Trap, but can see why it might be attractive. Definitely helps with bosses and minions who can remove blades, such as Earthquake and Enfeeble.
      Thanks, and love the life trap idea. Going to train that right away.

      In the past I never thought that spirit trap training made sense. There are so many 0-pip stackable treasures you can buy - curse, hex, death trap that it never seemed to make sense to me get the 1-pip variety to clog up the deck. Now I'm wondering if it makes sense to train spirit trap and have it in the deck during a mixed death - non-death battle. Where you could use it in either situation depending on you're set-up when it comes up. Re-thinking elemental trap for my fire along same line. He is about to finish KH with 18 training points.

      'It don't come easy' - Ringo

    9. #9
      Daniel Nightstrider's Avatar
        Daniel Nightstrider is offline Magus Wizard
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      Re: How to spend training points for PVE

      Just going to mention real quick that the balance pip traps (spirit/elemental) or the traps from trainers are really not the greatest things ever once you get a solid AoE. Trapping every single enemy with those takes as many rounds as there are enemies. Blades are much easier, and boost more quickly. Instead of an extra 35% to each enemy, (Possibly setting you back on pips as well) you can use your trained, sharp trained, pet, balance/amulet/pet sharpened etc blades. So it will look like 40%*50%*45%*40-50%.(Using Death as example. Some school blades vary in % boost) That's more than 400% damage boost to every enemy. None of those require pips, so you can build pips for a hit or something else. If you add in tri blades (Which do take pips) then you have another 35% and 45% (With sharpened blade), then you have over 800% boost. That's not taking into account whatever your damage and or critical are. That's enough to kill most things, whether they shield or not. That being said, you can use less to have more efficient fights.


      To summarize, your time is better spent casting blades than casting traps in the long run. If you need traps at lower levels, buy an amulet in the bazaar. They're cheap.

      When facing a boss who removes blades, use tc traps, or an amulet.
      Last edited by Daniel Nightstrider; 10-9-14 at 12:11:03 AM.

    10. #10
      Angel Eyes's Avatar
        Angel Eyes is offline Transcendent Wizard

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      Re: How to spend training points for PVE

      I'm liking Infallible more and more.

      As death:

      --Your best gear will usually give you pips > accuracy. Waterworks gear, crafted WT gear, MS and DS no-auction gear, Hades Helm of Torment, etc. You'll still fizzle like you did in 1999, unless you do something about that. And what self-respecting necromancer ever hits when they are at 2/3 health? Nope, we blade stack and wait until we're almost too far gone then big swing. You fizz, you die.

      --Picture this. You're in Crustacean empire, you have to collect 4 things from the Angler Ruffians, they're death and have 40% resist to you. You don't have Mass Death Prism yet. You could either blade, blade, crow and hope it deals some damage; or prism prism prism prism crow and not have any blades. Oh but wait, they're not dead yet. And you have another 4 turns before you have the pips to crow again. Meanwhile, they are draining back all the damage you did. Oh snap. Well, you might have done just as well to blade, infallible, garg crow. Boom, dead. Enough damage punches through with your piercing that you are usually able to one-shot them.
      Fast forward to "collect 4 necromantic vigor from Death seraphs" and you will have 20-25 battles if you're soloing this collect. Do you really want to take 5 turns to hit because you spent 2 pips on mass prism? Oh and now one of them has fortify up. Great.

      Big picture:

      DON'T train amplify. Use tc amplify or just do without until you get to Azteca
      DO experiment with infallible and see if it complements your playstyle as death. If it's helping, train it.
      REMEMBER death usually has lots of train points to spare by level 50 because a) you don't have to spend points to get death to feint lol and b) you aren't usually training life to satyr either.

      SO if you do decide to pick up Infallible that's not going to cost you as much relative to say, Storm or Ice who have to train loads of stuff to get the same efficiency.

      Even if you've already gotten Amplify and Fortify you're still good! My death is level 80 and still has about 16 train points just sitting around. I could pick up any number of delicious shadow spells and still have enough to go myth to earth or what have you. He's already gotten mass storm prism and element blades just to be helpful when farming.
      Angel's dad pulled the last box out of the closet, the one with Shoes of Pain and Fear printed in faded Gothic letters across it. Angel tried them on. In fact, they were snug and comfy, and not even a little bit scary.

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