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    1. #11
      ShadowWyvern's Avatar
        ShadowWyvern is offline Adept Wizard
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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      Quote Originally Posted by Sophia Spellforge View Post
      Post the meet-up details in the thread so everyone can verify them.


      I know of many people who msg people privately with offers to help, this is often extended to sequential hatching and it is done on the condition that their help remains anonymous. There are 2 main reason that they do this, for their sake they do not want to be inundated and secondly they can help others within their real life constraints. This rule, may stop those people from hatching, which would not be a good thing as they are generally the ones picking up threads no-one responds to, new comers or those that are just starting off with pets


      Please post the result after your Hatch. Other members may be curious as to the resulting pet’s new stats and talents, especially if considering a similar Hatch.



      I am not sure what you mean when you refer to a similar hatch.

      Say, Person A and Person B agree to hatch, result becomes Pet C. Then another person wants to hatch the their pet with the one Person A used, there is absolutely no bearing that the results from the 1st hatch will have on the second hatch. Just because both parties (B and C) may have a SPUDF and they both hatch with a critical pet, a one of hatch will guarantee a different result. I believe I provided results from a project where I was able to show that even with exact same pools, the results cannot be guaranteed. I am concerned with this as its setting up expectations and will open the doors for behaviors that may not be what you are after…..


      Your posts of the results will also act as Feedback for others who may be considering Hatching with you or your Hatch partner, so please keep this in mind when detailing what happened.


      If this is imposed, you will have more negative comments than positive comments. There has already been such threads in the past, only they will become more prevalent. One off hatches have a higher chance of failure. Personally, this suggestion alone will stop me from ever hatching with someone as a one off. I have no desire for the results of every single hatch I do to be posted publically. I can guarantee that from all the self-hatching I do, 75% of hatches will be considered “fail” by some people. Even if they were to get every single talent, if they don’t get the stat increase they will be disappointed. If they are upset they may unintentionally post something negative. Over time such comments will have a negative impact to how someone is perceived in the community, even though they help others out


      Thank you Sophia for responding to the issues that concern me as well. I primarily hatch by PM and was wondering how these guidelines would effect that.

    2. #12
      Willowdreamer's Avatar
        Willowdreamer is online now Moderator

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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      Quote Originally Posted by Esmeeskyflame View Post
      "* You MAY NOT request any payment or gifts of any kind in exchange for hatching, either in the thread or later in-game. Accepting a freely-offered gift after a successful hatch is fine."
      Just to clarify this rule if I were say asking for a specific talent eg I wanted myth dealer, would I be allowed to offer a hatch with a different pet of mine in return or a crown gift? This would be an offer in return not a requirement.
      Not sure I understand your scenario here. You're looking for myth dealer, so you agree to a Hatch -- why would you offer to hatch a different pet? Are you talking about the other person gifting you a Hatching Elixir so that you can Hatch again immediately?

      Quote Originally Posted by Sophia Spellforge
      This is something that should be negotiable. In the past, when hatching with people for talents, they often bring the specified pet to the pavillion and when we look at the pet in the sigil, they will ask if it is the best pet to hatch with. In some circumstances, I will recommend something else and its their choice what they use. However, in both circumstances I cannot guarantee the result. But this is a common circumstance under which the original pet gets changed.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sophia Spellforge

      I see your point here. If this is a common occurence, perhaps negotiating the actual pet to Hatch with is fine.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sophia Spellforge


      *
      When the Offer is accepted, please post the meet-up details in the thread so everyone will know the date, time and realm, and the fact that you may not be able to re-Hatch that same day.

      I think expectations should be set to 1 hatch per 24 hrs, if both parties are willing then multiple hatches may be possible but to not be expected
      Quote Originally Posted by Sophia Spellforge

      Okay - you're talking about multiple hatches with the same person, correct? I think this is a good suggestion.


      * You can only have 4 active Hatch threads running at one time.
      * You MAY NOT request any payment or gifts of any kind in exchange for hatching, either in the thread or later in-game. Accepting a freely-offered gift after a successful hatch is fine.

      Agree, this rule should be stated, also to include incidents where someone private msgs and requests a gift. Or in the instance of offering an elixir to be bumped up a queue

      You're right, this should include private messaging as well.

      Please make contact with your Hatch partner as soon as you can to complete your Hatch, and post the results of the Hatch in your thread.


      ACCEPTING A HATCH:

      * BEFORE you post accepting a Hatch be sure to have sufficient gold on the character for Hatching.
      * If you agree to the terms of the Offer, you must be able to meet for the Hatch within 5 days of posting.

      This may be difficult for students and non US players, who have limited time on the game or are in a different zone. Furthermore, for those mixups that are intended for sequential hatching this will be impossible to meet.

      Do you think people need more time once they agree? Wouldn't someone who is looking for a Hatch intend to meet up fairly quickly? Once the initial meet-up is scheduled, both parties could agree to delay if that is necessary.

      * Do not spam a Hatch thread. If you dislike or don't agree with the terms of a Hatch then move on.


      Agree

      * If the Offer is breaking a forum rule or not following the Hatch guidelines, do not post in the thread, Report it.

      I am assuming that you mean that they are spamming, or responding without offering to hatch

      Basically, this is a way of saying not to do backseat-modding in the thread by pointing out faults.

      Handling a Hatch dispute:

      When a Hatch is agreed upon, the parties should make contact as soon as possible, and a day/time should be set to meet in game. Please be considerate of each other and don't leave the other person waiting to complete the Hatch.



      Post the meet-up details in the thread so everyone can verify them.


      I know of many people who msg people privately with offers to help, this is often extended to sequential hatching and it is done on the condition that their help remains anonymous. There are 2 main reason that they do this, for their sake they do not want to be inundated and secondly they can help others within their real life constraints. This rule, may stop those people from hatching, which would not be a good thing as they are generally the ones picking up threads no-one responds to, new comers or those that are just starting off with pets

      The OP can post that an anonymous party is willing to hatch, and list the date and time.

      Please post the result after your Hatch. Other members may be curious as to the resulting pet’s new stats and talents, especially if considering a similar Hatch.



      I am not sure what you mean when you refer to a similar hatch.

      Say, Person A and Person B agree to hatch, result becomes Pet C. Then another person wants to hatch the their pet with the one Person A used, there is absolutely no bearing that the results from the 1st hatch will have on the second hatch. Just because both parties (B and C) may have a SPUDF and they both hatch with a critical pet, a one of hatch will guarantee a different result. I believe I provided results from a project where I was able to show that even with exact same pools, the results cannot be guaranteed. I am concerned with this as its setting up expectations and will open the doors for behaviors that may not be what you are after…..

      This just meant that if someone was looking for a Wendigo, they might feel better about getting the pet if other threads confirm successful Hatches of Wendigos... If it doesn't make sense, perhaps it should be reworded.

      Your posts of the results will also act as Feedback for others who may be considering Hatching with you or your Hatch partner, so please keep this in mind when detailing what happened.


      If this is imposed, you will have more negative comments than positive comments. There has already been such threads in the past, only they will become more prevalent. One off hatches have a higher chance of failure. Personally, this suggestion alone will stop me from ever hatching with someone as a one off. I have no desire for the results of every single hatch I do to be posted publically. I can guarantee that from all the self-hatching I do, 75% of hatches will be considered “fail” by some people. Even if they were to get every single talent, if they don’t get the stat increase they will be disappointed. If they are upset they may unintentionally post something negative. Over time such comments will have a negative impact to how someone is perceived in the community, even though they help others out

      This guideline is being taken under advisement.
      Okay, my comments are in brown, but I'm not sure they are tracking right with the quote within a quote thing.

      These guidelines aren't meant to address every conceivable situation, but generally make members, especially those new at Hatching Meet-ups, feel more comfortable with posting and accepting Hatches here. There shouldn't be any surprises for them.
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    3. #13
      Sophia Spellforge's Avatar
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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      Originally Posted by Sophia Spellforge


      Okay - you're talking about multiple hatches with the same person, correct? I think this is a good suggestion.



      Yes I was referring to multiple hatches with the same person J



      ACCEPTING A HATCH:

      * BEFORE you post accepting a Hatch be sure to have sufficient gold on the character for Hatching.
      * If you agree to the terms of the Offer, you must be able to meet for the Hatch within 5 days of posting.

      This may be difficult for students and non US players, who have limited time on the game or are in a different zone. Furthermore, for those mixups that are intended for sequential hatching this will be impossible to meet.

      Do you think people need more time once they agree? Wouldn't someone who is looking for a Hatch intend to meet up fairly quickly? Once the initial meet-up is scheduled, both parties could agree to delay if that is necessary.




      I may have misunderstood this. You are not saying that if I am trying to help someone, I must do so with 5 days of posting. Rather you are saying once we negotiate the initial time and date, we have an additional 5 days to complete the hatch from the initial or negotiated date. If this is the case, then sequentials would also work, if its 5 days after the initial or the negotiated date

      The only recommendation is that instead of 5 days make it 7, that way it caters for all that can only get on over the weekends


      * If the Offer is breaking a forum rule or not following the Hatch guidelines, do not post in the thread, Report it.


      I am assuming that you mean that they are spamming, or responding without offering to hatch

      Basically, this is a way of saying not to do backseat-modding in the thread by pointing out faults.

      Ok fair enough

      Handling a Hatch dispute:

      When a Hatch is agreed upon, the parties should make contact as soon as possible, and a day/time should be set to meet in game. Please be considerate of each other and don't leave the other person waiting to complete the Hatch.



      Post the meet-up details in the thread so everyone can verify them.


      I know of many people who msg people privately with offers to help, this is often extended to sequential hatching and it is done on the condition that their help remains anonymous. There are 2 main reason that they do this, for their sake they do not want to be inundated and secondly they can help others within their real life constraints. This rule, may stop those people from hatching, which would not be a good thing as they are generally the ones picking up threads no-one responds to, new comers or those that are just starting off with pets

      The OP can post that an anonymous party is willing to hatch, and list the date and time.


      Cool

      Please post the result after your Hatch. Other members may be curious as to the resulting pet’s new stats and talents, especially if considering a similar Hatch.



      I am not sure what you mean when you refer to a similar hatch.

      Say, Person A and Person B agree to hatch, result becomes Pet C. Then another person wants to hatch the their pet with the one Person A used, there is absolutely no bearing that the results from the 1st hatch will have on the second hatch. Just because both parties (B and C) may have a SPUDF and they both hatch with a critical pet, a one of hatch will guarantee a different result. I believe I provided results from a project where I was able to show that even with exact same pools, the results cannot be guaranteed. I am concerned with this as its setting up expectations and will open the doors for behaviors that may not be what you are after…..

      This just meant that if someone was looking for a Wendigo, they might feel better about getting the pet if other threads confirm successful Hatches of Wendigos... If it doesn't make sense, perhaps it should be reworded.


      In this instance, if the hatch is for a pet, not the talents or stats I don’t think people would have a problem with it. It’s when we get into talents and stats that it can become messy unfortunately, and threads can lend themselves to negative comments



      Your posts of the results will also act as Feedback for others who may be considering Hatching with you or your Hatch partner, so please keep this in mind when detailing what happened.


      If this is imposed, you will have more negative comments than positive comments. There has already been such threads in the past, only they will become more prevalent. One off hatches have a higher chance of failure. Personally, this suggestion alone will stop me from ever hatching with someone as a one off. I have no desire for the results of every single hatch I do to be posted publically. I can guarantee that from all the self-hatching I do, 75% of hatches will be considered “fail” by some people. Even if they were to get every single talent, if they don’t get the stat increase they will be disappointed. If they are upset they may unintentionally post something negative. Over time such comments will have a negative impact to how someone is perceived in the community, even though they help others out

      This guideline is being taken under advisement.

      Ty


      I think the intention for this guide is great, as there appeared to be some concerning behaviors in the past, which were making people feel uncomfortable. Having said that, unfortunately, pets can become messy as an enormous amount of effort and time can be invested by individuals.


      Many thnx David1822 (Avi) Kat (Sig)


    4. #14
      Willowdreamer's Avatar
        Willowdreamer is online now Moderator

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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      Please take a look at the REVISED guidelines and provide feedback.

      Thanks!

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    5. #15
      CNWZD101's Avatar
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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      Thank you Willowdreamer for the Meet-up Guidelines and revisions. There are a three points I'd like to bring up.

      1) "Approximate gold" needed for hatching.

      Since all hatches cost under 60,000 gold, as a general guideline, I'd have that be the amount of gold needed. Of course, hatches with wizard city pets and other like pets are well under this number.

      2) "Please make contact with your Hatch partner as soon as you can to complete your Hatch, and post the results of the Hatch in your thread."

      Wouldn't posting the results of your hatch encourage the cataloging of a "pet project" rather than just getting and giving hatches (i.e. the point of this thread)? To me, this type of action would belong in a section other than "Pet Mixing Meet-ups." Although, I could see that if in the OP the person stated that he/she wants all posters to include a picture of their hatch results, then that would be fine. This just seems a bit much for most of the type of hatching that occurs here.

      3) "Don't hijack another person's thread with your own offer for the same/similar pet."

      This one I'm not sure I understand the intention. If the person posts a "Wanted to Mix" thread and asks for a Satyr with proof and fairy and gets three responses from different people offering that exact pet, then I would say the person had a very successful thread. I wouldn't define that as a hijacked thread by any means.

      The hijacking most disliked is the kind that occurs when someone posts a "Wanted to Mix" thread, for lets say a fire damage quad, and gets an offer by a very kind person. Then all of a sudden 3 other people start asking/demanding that nice person for hatches even though it is clearly not their thread. This form of hijacking also occurs frequently via PM. This happens way more often than it should...

      Those are my three cents.

      Again, thanks for doing this.

      All the best,

      -CNWIZ
      Last edited by CNWZD101; 11-23-13 at 1:16:39 PM.


    6. #16
      *Erin*'s Avatar
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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      I had a question about when new pets come out and I make a thread to help spread it. Since Its usually not just me and others helping on my thread and I help others with there's, it doesn't make sense for me to put times I am available when you might not hatch with me and hatch with someone else. We usually have gold for 2 to 3 hatches ready for that one person just in case they do not get the pet on the first try. Sometimes though we are short and one of the helpers will do the 2nd or 3rd hatch with that person because we are friends in game and ask real quick if they have a spare timer. So just because I might do the first hatch you might not get the pet from me in the end so times are not really something I think need to be added for those spread pets ones.

      Also, when I do these hatch threads we thank the person we contacted. The other helpers know that blank person was contacted by and that helper who thanked. Do I have to contact every helper to ask if the hatch was successful now? We usually just post in the thread contacted so and so and whoever is a proud owner of whatever pet now.

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    7. #17
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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      Here are my concerns:
      Posting times available- I usually just PM responders times after they post in my thread. Certain days I may be on at completely different times. Also by posting times, someone could impersonate other hatchers.
      Posting Results- This seems like too much trouble for just a single hatch thread.

      I like to work out most everything through PM, and just post the pet wanted and offered.

    8. #18
      *Erin*'s Avatar
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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      Yea I agree with Mr. Fred I have had imposters before show for a hatch and when the real person shows I have no gold for them to hatch. I never get out my times and location unless its in a pm.

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    9. #19
      DV8ONE's Avatar
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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      A couple concerns I have.

      1. As it is, when I post a pet as an offer to help another. I often get bombarded with spam pm's from others trying to jump the line to hatch with my pet. How about a rule to prevent this. I am trying to help and my reward is met with pet stalkers.

      2. As I have already received unwanted pm's from those trying to jump the line, I am certainly not going to list when and ware I will be to hatch.

      3. I have offered to hatch one pet with multiple people. In an effort to speed this up I have in the past suggested a timer reset potion to be welcome. There is no gain in that for me. I am simply trying to hatch for others as fast as possible.Are you now considering this "asking for a gift"?

      4. "List all known talents". To me I am at a place where I am seeking specific talents.Anything beyond those talents are a fail and irelivent. If some one is asking for a SPUDF for example and I am offering exactly what they asked for.Me listing the fact that this pet also has slots for pain giver, fire dealer and sharp shot, only serves to garenty even more unwanted pm's asking for a hatch.

    10. #20
      Sophia Spellforge's Avatar
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      Re: Hatching Meet-up Guidelines

      Quote Originally Posted by Willowdreamer View Post


      Violations of these Guidelines should be Reported to Forum Staff for investigation, but please understand that actions of players and disagreements in-game are not something we can control.
      Hi

      I have had an opportunity to think about this guide in terms of both those just starting and requesting hatches, those offering and everything in between, as well as the concerns that have been raised. I think that the more feedback we get the more complex the guideline will become as it cannot cater for everything that could happen. Whichever guideline you choose to document there will always be instances that fall outside the boundaries and may be viewed unfair.

      My biggest concern is that there appears to be an attempt at "policing" behaviors in the game. As its not feasible to know whether particular wizards belong to members of the central community or not, any judgement fair or otherwise, should not be made by the forum staff in my opinion, this is not, I believe what central is about.

      Having said that, one of the easiest way for new people, to know whether someone is trusted for hatching, is if there was a star system for pet hatching. We could have a separate star system set up, where if people hatch, they are given a rating, based on their behavior. If people are not happy with the outcome or feel short changed they simply dont rate someone. So for those that are new, they could look at the people responding to their requests for help and if individuals have a higher rating, then they can feel more confident about the outcome. This is not about the pets someone has, but rather what the other party thinks about their behavior, from the time they responded to when their hatch is completed. Its not tied, to success or failure of the new pets, but rather the process itself. The star system shouldnt be tied to a thread, rather someone could go to a members profile page and rate them there (this would take care of those that help but do so privately).
      Last edited by Sophia Spellforge; 11-24-13 at 3:15:37 AM.


      Many thnx David1822 (Avi) Kat (Sig)


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