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    1. #1
      Eric Stormbringer's Avatar
        Eric Stormbringer is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Consideration: How a soft cap would improve ranked PvP

      KI has made many major changes to point distribution in the current ranked system. These point changes currently allow experienced players at the middle levels to achieve consistently high rank well over 1000+. While there is nothing wrong with this on it's own, if allowed to continue along the current trend it will lead to a breakdown of the ranking system and a general increase in lvl based mismatches. Already those at 1.5K+ are reporting matches where they are being matched with wizards 10-20+ lvls higher than they are. This is unfair to both the high-ranked warlords as they simply do not have comparable statistics and it is also unfair to the higher lvl wizards since those being matched with overlord wizards tend to be the least skilled players. This system further exacerbates current imbalances in the arena such as high lvl treasure card usage at mid level which are arguably needed to combat higher level players but are arguably overpowered against fellow mid lvls. In order to create a more consistent matching system I believe KI should implement a soft cap to rank. A soft cap to rank is in effect a maximum and minimum rank number that KI would use to calculate match-ups. It would be a "soft" cap by allowing your wizard to earn any number rank they can achieve but when calculating match-ups, all ranks outside of the cap would be rounded to the mimimum and maximum for purposes of match creation.


      Example- KI sets a rank cap at 1000 max rank and 400 min rank. A wizard with 2000 rank comes to the arena. Said wizard will be allowed to keep said rank and this rank will be displayed on the leaderboard: in other words the wizard would see no change. However upon entering the queue, the system would calculate his rank as if it was 1000(The maximum in this soft cap scenario) when searching for a matchup.


      What would this accomplish?

      1)A solid reduction to downranking- By establishing soft caps, players would no longer be able to manipulate the system to achieve massively unfair matchup's by downranking to 0. Coupled with the new system currently in place, downranking would be absolutely ineffective.

      2)Preserved matching system and fairer matches- This would greatly reduce the number of mismatches beween overlord mid levels and legendary sub privates and would instead create a system where both are more likely to duel those within their respective lvl tiers.

      3)Shorter match wait times- Since this system would constrain everyone within a narrower range, the chances of getting a fair match quickly would improve regardless of your rank.

      4)A first step towards creating a more balanced arena- Under this system, most people would be matched against those of a similar lvl. This would utterly negate the necessity of tools such as over lvl treasure cards and open the way for KI to place PvP only limitations such as lvl restricted TC's. This would be a godsend for both PvP and PvE. With an inclusion of lvl capped treasure cards there would no longer exist a need to restrict treasure cards at point of purchase. If taken far enough, all treasure cards could once again be tradeable and auctionable a major boon for PvE enthusists. For PvP, this would replace the clumsy no PvP restrictions that have been placed on cards such as Talos, Insane Bolt and Polymorphs with a more nuanced system that limits based on lvl. In this way certain cards such as Talos could come back into play at the appropiate lvls allowing for more diversity in strategy.

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    2. #2
      Lacrymosa's Avatar
        Lacrymosa is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Re: Consideration: How a soft cap would improve ranked PvP

      Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stormbringer View Post
      KI has made many major changes to point distribution in the current ranked system. These point changes currently allow experienced players at the middle levels to achieve consistently high rank well over 1000+. While there is nothing wrong with this on it's own, if allowed to continue along the current trend it will lead to a breakdown of the ranking system and a general increase in lvl based mismatches. Already those at 1.5K+ are reporting matches where they are being matched with wizards 10-20+ lvls higher than they are. This is unfair to both the high-ranked warlords as they simply do not have comparable statistics and it is also unfair to the higher lvl wizards since those being matched with overlord wizards tend to be the least skilled players. This system further exacerbates current imbalances in the arena such as high lvl treasure card usage at mid level which are arguably needed to combat higher level players but are arguably overpowered against fellow mid lvls. In order to create a more consistent matching system I believe KI should implement a soft cap to rank. A soft cap to rank is in effect a maximum and minimum rank number that KI would use to calculate match-ups. It would be a "soft" cap by allowing your wizard to earn any number rank they can achieve but when calculating match-ups, all ranks outside of the cap would be rounded to the mimimum and maximum for purposes of match creation.


      Example- KI sets a rank cap at 1000 max rank and 400 min rank. A wizard with 2000 rank comes to the arena. Said wizard will be allowed to keep said rank and this rank will be displayed on the leaderboard: in other words the wizard would see no change. However upon entering the queue, the system would calculate his rank as if it was 1000(The maximum in this soft cap scenario) when searching for a matchup.


      What would this accomplish?

      1)A solid reduction to downranking- By establishing soft caps, players would no longer be able to manipulate the system to achieve massively unfair matchup's by downranking to 0. Coupled with the new system currently in place, downranking would be absolutely ineffective.

      2)Preserved matching system and fairer matches- This would greatly reduce the number of mismatches beween overlord mid levels and legendary sub privates and would instead create a system where both are more likely to duel those within their respective lvl tiers.

      3)Shorter match wait times- Since this system would constrain everyone within a narrower range, the chances of getting a fair match quickly would improve regardless of your rank.

      4)A first step towards creating a more balanced arena- Under this system, most people would be matched against those of a similar lvl. This would utterly negate the necessity of tools such as over lvl treasure cards and open the way for KI to place PvP only limitations such as lvl restricted TC's. This would be a godsend for both PvP and PvE. With an inclusion of lvl capped treasure cards there would no longer exist a need to restrict treasure cards at point of purchase. If taken far enough, all treasure cards could once again be tradeable and auctionable a major boon for PvE enthusists. For PvP, this would replace the clumsy no PvP restrictions that have been placed on cards such as Talos, Insane Bolt and Polymorphs with a more nuanced system that limits based on lvl. In this way certain cards such as Talos could come back into play at the appropiate lvls allowing for more diversity in strategy.

      I like this idea ^ And I have to agree completely with it My rank is always somewhere below 400, and I'd love to stay at 400 at least. Also, this is pretty good to limit down ranking

      when the world gets too heavy, put it on my back
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    3. #3
      JinZah's Avatar
        JinZah is offline Master Wizard
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      Re: Consideration: How a soft cap would improve ranked PvP

      A PvP fix that unlocks all TC's, and keeps it's effects in the arena? i like the sound of that, tell me more; will this cap scale with level, rank, or both, or will it even scale at all? If it does scale, by how much?

      Provided that the level limits stay in the arena, and soft caps work to restrict hugely off base level mismatches, that still leaves some things that need to be worked out. One question is what to do about cards that have no trained equivalent, like say, what level is it acceptable to cast krokomummy?

      Another, is what to do about spells from card packs? It seems a bit off to me to level restrict a spell like the Brimstone Revenant TC at say level 25 or 30, when you can pick up the trained version at level 1 from a hoard pack.

      What about some of the high level astral spells that provide pierce? Even at low levels it's possible to get 55% universal resist with commander gear, a resist pet, and Heartsteel, and low to mid level Jade Gear can get higher than that. Should the currently restricted Extraordinary, and Unstoppable, along with the Infallible aura be made available to lower levels to combat this, and if so at what level?

      i'm sure there are many other questions, but that's a good place to stop and consider.

    4. #4
      AdamStormStalker's Avatar
        AdamStormStalker is offline Master Wizard
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      Re: Consideration: How a soft cap would improve ranked PvP

      Won't very highly ranked wizards have to wait longer for matches though as the pool of available combatants shrinks dramatically?

    5. #5
      daniellenc's Avatar
        daniellenc is offline Master Wizard

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      So many issues here. First matches are weighted more by level as it is over rank however this depends on the number of people in que at any given time. Also someone with 2000 rank who is capped down even getting matched with similar levels now has a major advantage over that private they will get matched with. Every change in PVP effects each level and rank tier so any change needs to take both into account.
      "What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."

    6. #6
      Vigilant Seraph's Avatar
        Vigilant Seraph is offline Adept Wizard

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        •  90
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        •  Life
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        •  Lily
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      Re: Consideration: How a soft cap would improve ranked PvP

      It sounds great but how do we get Ki to agree? I have a feeling we are supposed to be content with this update as being the definitive fix to all the issues. I'm really disappointed that downranking is still allowed. KI supposedly addressed it by changing the tickets and point rewards, but they failed to see that those who downrank to 0 are not doing it for their own benefit (unless its their own wizard they use to team with). It's still a viable abuse available to exploiters. And it still works.

    7. #7
      invinible's Avatar
        invinible is offline Journeyman Wizard
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      Re: Consideration: How a soft cap would improve ranked PvP

      You aren't proposing a soft cap. What you are proposing is a hard cap.

      A soft cap is the highest value a programming language can use without the value itself start causing bugs in the program you are using the programming language for.

      A hard cap is a value you use either to keep the program from going beyond the soft cap or to rail in the value range of a particular area of the program.

    8. #8
      StorySmith's Avatar
        StorySmith is offline Prodigious

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      Re: Consideration: How a soft cap would improve ranked PvP

      This would be really unfair to the opponents of these 2000 rank wizards. You're proposing that their rank be seen as 1000 in the matchmaking system instead of 2000, which would therefore match them against lower level and not as skilled wizards. A mid level wizard with 1500 less rank could be matched up against one of these wizards, who would continue to grow in rank (since the rank point wins are still distributed).

      In your proposal, you'd be advocating that these wizards be freely allowed to rank up unlimited and make it easier for them to rank up by pitting them against lower ranked wizards of similar level. This proposed fix is only of benefit to these few wizards and not to the majority of PvP'ers.

      In my mind, if you have that much rank, then the system rightfully is matching you against wizards of higher level since your "skill level" measured by rank is so much greater.

      The system needs a negative feedback loop to keep their rank from increasing too much.
      Last edited by StorySmith; 5-9-13 at 12:39:42 PM.

    9. #9
      GarrettIceCloud's Avatar
        GarrettIceCloud is offline Adept Wizard

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      Re: Consideration: How a soft cap would improve ranked PvP

      KI's idea of Balance: If both are suffering, why fix it?

      tfw the https:// extension doesn't work, causing you to go afk for over a year.

    10. #10
      Eric Stormbringer's Avatar
        Eric Stormbringer is offline Grandmaster Wizard

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      Re: Consideration: How a soft cap would improve ranked PvP

      Quote Originally Posted by JinZah View Post
      A PvP fix that unlocks all TC's, and keeps it's effects in the arena? i like the sound of that, tell me more; will this cap scale with level, rank, or both, or will it even scale at all? If it does scale, by how much?

      Provided that the level limits stay in the arena, and soft caps work to restrict hugely off base level mismatches, that still leaves some things that need to be worked out. One question is what to do about cards that have no trained equivalent, like say, what level is it acceptable to cast krokomummy?

      Another, is what to do about spells from card packs? It seems a bit off to me to level restrict a spell like the Brimstone Revenant TC at say level 25 or 30, when you can pick up the trained version at level 1 from a hoard pack.

      What about some of the high level astral spells that provide pierce? Even at low levels it's possible to get 55% universal resist with commander gear, a resist pet, and Heartsteel, and low to mid level Jade Gear can get higher than that. Should the currently restricted Extraordinary, and Unstoppable, along with the Infallible aura be made available to lower levels to combat this, and if so at what level?

      i'm sure there are many other questions, but that's a good place to stop and consider.
      Those are some very good questions and I think KI can go multiple routes in how they choose to answer them. For spells such as krokomummy, firezilla, etc they can be restricted at the lvls that trained similar damage spells are restricted. As for the astral spells, a slow implementation as firestarter had on his thread would work wonders in my opinion.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by daniellenc View Post
      So many issues here. First matches are weighted more by level as it is over rank however this depends on the number of people in que at any given time. Also someone with 2000 rank who is capped down even getting matched with similar levels now has a major advantage over that private they will get matched with. Every change in PVP effects each level and rank tier so any change needs to take both into account.
      That is the beauty of this kind of cap, it creates a larger pool of participants which in turn will lead to more equitable matches. Yes lvl is more highly weighted in today's arena. However rank is still a factor, from what I have seen the system matches you based on lvl and will do it's best to match you based on rank also. With a larger pool chances are high that a 2000+ warlord will get matched with someone who has PvP experience far more often than they will with the green private new to the arena.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by invinible View Post
      You aren't proposing a soft cap. What you are proposing is a hard cap.

      A soft cap is the highest value a programming language can use without the value itself start causing bugs in the program you are using the programming language for.

      A hard cap is a value you use either to keep the program from going beyond the soft cap or to rail in the value range of a particular area of the program.
      Thank You for the clarification. I am not very familiar with programming languages or their associated terminology. I was using the term soft cap to indicte a cap that is there but not visible to the player population.

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