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  • Results 1 to 8 of 8

    Thread: Sharpened Blade


    1. #1
      Roadrunner Sorcerer's Avatar
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      Sharpened Blade

      It's quite simple. The issue is stacking of blades and when you increase a smaller number and a larger number even if by the same amount, the larger number gets even larger.


      Let's keep the initial discussion to core trained school blades (fire blade, death blade, storm blade, etc....) and now look at Ice vs. Balance in this core boosting potential, considering the orig. + stacked enchanted version.

      25% Balance Blade + 35% "Sharpened" Balance Blade= approx. 60% in core boosting power

      vs.

      40% Ice Blade + 50% "Sharpened" Ice Blade= approx. 90% in core boosting power


      Anything I can boost you can boost higher LOL

      Basically this update is making Balance (and Storm, frankly, can chime in any time here because they aren't so far off in situation...) 30% weaker than Life, Death, & Ice in core boost power. That number was previously 15%. And hasn't even yet taken into consideration Bubbles, Element. & Spirit Blades, and such. Sure, about this same number showed up whenever Item cards were used & stacked. But then a Balance wiz in PvP could at least count on the 1 per reshuffle rule.

      This is essentially garbage and not an acceptable circumstance for Balance to undergo this expansion. Especially for 1v1 PvP. The discrepancy here is way too wide for KI to credibly tell people there is any semblance of "balance" in the game.

      This does lead me to an offshoot question: How is the percentage of "Sharpened Blade" applied to Elemental & Spirit Blade? Each school gets an additional 45% there? Can you say MASSIVE FAIL! Uh, yeah, I can....


      So what's to be done here? Because the question is not whether something should be done about it but when will it? This circumstance in Live is basically garbage. I can't abide falling even farther behind. Some simple math helps, KI...

    2. #2
      swifthunter101's Avatar
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      Re: Sharpened Blade

      Maybe make sharpened blade and trap non-pvp.

    3. #3
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      Re: Sharpened Blade

      Quote Originally Posted by swifthunter101 View Post
      Maybe make sharpened blade and trap non-pvp.
      That won't happen. But 25% and 35% is still proportional to the higher hit, Try pvp in test and get back with the results since i cant.

    4. #4
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      Re: Sharpened Blade

      Adding percentages isnt exactly a correct way of stating this.
      First school's blades:
      1000*140%=1400
      1400*150%=2100
      The actual damage of the two blades would actually be 2100 not 1900 [100*190%]
      Damage increase was actually 110%

      Second school's blades:
      1000*125%=1250
      1250*135%=1687.5
      Damage increase was actually 68.75%
      The difference between the two schools is actually around 24.44%

      Yet, you aren't implementing the school's damage from gear either, which is a variable among wizards however. And I made the two beginning damages equal to easily see the differences between the two boosts, but the spells from different schools also dont have an equal amount of damage.[ice being the lowest and storm being the highest]
      Remember, this is still the test realm, so things can be either removed or changed [similar to how Elucidate and Simplify were removed]
      Last edited by Deathwiz30; 10-27-12 at 11:09 PM.
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    5. #5
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      Re: Sharpened Blade

      I have to put my 2 cents in on this post.

      I felt the complete opposite way when this was discovered from you. I regard this change as empowering balance wizards rather than tearing them down. This change doubles the amount of boosts that balance has had available to them, which is absolutely huge. Previously, all of the other schools had enough boosts in their deck to simply blade up and kill the opponent, while balance did not. A 20% and 25% blade will do nothing against an opponent with an upwards of 4000 health. To get around this, I was forced to make sure I always had a dragonblade on hand from my pet to really deal any kind of damage to mobs.

      This change allows balance wizards to actually one hit opponents, something we haven't been able to do since early Dragonspyre! It increases our natural single-target damage output (figuring 70% gear boost and only balance trained spells used), by almost 4 fold. While it does have a similar (and yes, possibly larger) effect for the other schools, this is something they've never had issues with. They have always been able to use their own school-specific buffs, their own blades, along with balance's generic blades with ease and hit the high damage values effortlessly.

      In summary: This change improves everyone's standing in the game, empowering all wizards, but it really allows balance wizards to reach a frontier with damage output that they've never known before.
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    6. #6
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      Re: Sharpened Blade

      Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner Sorcerer View Post
      It's quite simple. The issue is stacking of blades and when you increase a smaller number and a larger number even if by the same amount, the larger number gets even larger.


      Let's keep the initial discussion to core trained school blades (fire blade, death blade, storm blade, etc....) and now look at Ice vs. Balance in this core boosting potential, considering the orig. + stacked enchanted version.

      25% Balance Blade + 35% "Sharpened" Balance Blade= approx. 60% in core boosting power

      vs.

      40% Ice Blade + 50% "Sharpened" Ice Blade= approx. 90% in core boosting power


      Anything I can boost you can boost higher LOL

      Basically this update is making Balance (and Storm, frankly, can chime in any time here because they aren't so far off in situation...) 30% weaker than Life, Death, & Ice in core boost power. That number was previously 15%. And hasn't even yet taken into consideration Bubbles, Element. & Spirit Blades, and such. Sure, about this same number showed up whenever Item cards were used & stacked. But then a Balance wiz in PvP could at least count on the 1 per reshuffle rule.

      This is essentially garbage and not an acceptable circumstance for Balance to undergo this expansion. Especially for 1v1 PvP. The discrepancy here is way too wide for KI to credibly tell people there is any semblance of "balance" in the game.

      This does lead me to an offshoot question: How is the percentage of "Sharpened Blade" applied to Elemental & Spirit Blade? Each school gets an additional 45% there? Can you say MASSIVE FAIL! Uh, yeah, I can....


      So what's to be done here? Because the question is not whether something should be done about it but when will it? This circumstance in Live is basically garbage. I can't abide falling even farther behind. Some simple math helps, KI...
      I was just about to start major testing on this spell tonight on my balance, but i would like to point one thing out to you. 25% balance blade + 35% enchanted balance blade + 20 blade storm + 30% enchanted blade storm = 110% which is 20% higher than than ice' 90%

      next time make sure to factor in blade storm into your calculations
      Last edited by JinZah; 10-27-12 at 11:23 PM.

    7. #7
      Roadrunner Sorcerer's Avatar
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      Re: Sharpened Blade

      Quote Originally Posted by swifthunter101 View Post
      Maybe make sharpened blade and trap non-pvp.
      Non-pvp is a no win scenario, imho.

      Quote Originally Posted by Deathwiz30 View Post
      Adding percentages isnt exactly a correct way of stating this.
      First school's blades:
      1000*140%=1400
      1400*150%=2100
      The actual damage of the two blades would actually be 2100 not 1900 [100*190%]
      Damage increase was actually 110%

      Second school's blades:
      1000*125%=1250
      1250*135%=1687.5
      Damage increase was actually 68.75%
      The difference between the two schools is actually around 24.44%

      Yet, you aren't implementing the school's damage from gear either, which is a variable among wizards however. And I made the two beginning damages equal to easily see the differences between the two boosts, but the spells from different schools also dont have an equal amount of damage.[ice being the lowest and storm being the highest]
      Remember, this is still the test realm, so things can be either removed or changed [similar to how Elucidate and Simplify were removed]
      I get what you're saying. It's relative to the damage amount and is added per blade. So it's kind of relative to those two conditions. It's why I put "approx" in the OP. My point is when you double any given number and slap on a 10% bonus, it will always work out way better for the bigger number, regardless of the fact that you're increasing the smaller number by the same amount.

      As for gear damage boost, ok let's take a look at gear...

      Life and Death are right around similar, typically, to Balance.

      Ice? Ice does have the worst gear damage boost in the game yet they are capable, especially in the arena (and in fact the very best at), taking damage, tanking, blade stacking and accumulating incredible damage spikes. I just don't see their low damage boost as that much of a hindrance. It's hard for many to see, I'm sure.

      Myth and Fire? LoL, ok, they do get a little bit less gear boost than Balance but you gotta be kidding me if you don't think they can compensate for it elsewhere. Easy. No brainer.

      And of course Storm typically has superior gear *FIST* boost.

      So sure, some things are a bit relative here. Yet some simply make me shake my head.


      Quote Originally Posted by Potroast42 View Post
      I have to put my 2 cents in on this post.

      I felt the complete opposite way when this was discovered from you. I regard this change as empowering balance wizards rather than tearing them down. This change doubles the amount of boosts that balance has had available to them, which is absolutely huge. Previously, all of the other schools had enough boosts in their deck to simply blade up and kill the opponent, while balance did not. A 20% and 25% blade will do nothing against an opponent with an upwards of 4000 health. To get around this, I was forced to make sure I always had a dragonblade on hand from my pet to really deal any kind of damage to mobs.

      This change allows balance wizards to actually one hit opponents, something we haven't been able to do since early Dragonspyre! It increases our natural single-target damage output (figuring 70% gear boost and only balance trained spells used), by almost 4 fold. While it does have a similar (and yes, possibly larger) effect for the other schools, this is something they've never had issues with. They have always been able to use their own school-specific buffs, their own blades, along with balance's generic blades with ease and hit the high damage values effortlessly.

      In summary: This change improves everyone's standing in the game, empowering all wizards, but it really allows balance wizards to reach a frontier with damage output that they've never known before.
      I do get what you're saying. And I don't want to be a complainer but I just tend to take little comfort in what you're saying.

      Plus, the last time I dared to set foot in the arena One-hitting opponents wasn't really a very viable strategy on Balance anyway. As I remember my Balance almost always played better when I wasn't getting greedy after single big hits. Just me.

      I'm sure there is merit in what you're saying, though.

      Quote Originally Posted by JinZah View Post
      I was just about to start major testing on this spell tonight on my balance, but i would like to point one thing out to you. 25% balance blade + 35% enchanted balance blade + 20 blade storm + 30% enchanted blade storm = 110% which is 20% higher than than ice' 90%

      next time make sure to factor in blade storm into your calculations
      Thanks. You're right. On the other hand, I didn't want to factor in Blade storm and sharpened blade storm on purpose.

      Why? Simple. The situation gets even worse and looks even uglier for Balance.

      Where a Balance wizard can play Bladestorm+Sharpened Bladestorm, every other school for the exact same amount of pips and incredibly more boosting capacity can play Elemental or Spirit Blade + Sharpened Element/Spirit Blade.


      Making the numbers bigger, truly, just makes them even more sickening to me.


      In fact, let's forget about Balance for the time being. The only thing Sharpened Blade does for this game is increase the disparity between everybody's School blade.

      Other than that? Zilch.

    8. #8
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      Re: Sharpened Blade

      I think this is only looking at a single facet of the impact on game.

      I've been playing a lot of level 80 PvP lately, and one thing that stands out is top level players have to make some hard and fast decisions about deck choices now. As card variety and gear variety expands, the game is finally starting to have multiple viable builds for a single school, and this is multiplied in deck building.

      Running attacks from main deck, I've had to remove cloak and add more colossal to have a high enough ratio of the card to actually match up with attack spells in deck. That random first shuffle, and needing sequences to attack or defend really makes a mess of things quickly.

      I say all that, I guess, to say this: I don't see the card being some big tipping point in PvP at all. It's pretty much a non-issue. If people are seriously interested in using the enchantment, it will be in exchange for something else that was previously in their deck. If they really want to maximize buffing potential, they'll probably be putting it in side-deck. There's really not much difference between a TC enchanted blade and a regular TC blade, and the counter is still the same - kill them first or quake them off.

      The real disparity, in my opinion, is if it continues to be able to multiply damage bubbles. This furthers the gap between schools with useful vs non-useful bubbles in PvP.

      Either way you look at it, the card offers no immediate advantage in a duel. It will be useful in the longer game, after an initial reshuffle, but only if a player is willing to sacrifice spaces in their deck to support it.
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