The first thing I saw when I was reading various combat tips was that you shouldn't use high-rank spells on low-rank monsters or else you'll get less experience for the fight. Another, similar theme didn't claim that there was a penalty for high-rank spells, but a bonus for using lower-ranked spells on higher-ranked monsters.

These are all hideous lies.

You get 3XP per pip per spell you cast. That's it. 0-pip spells count as 1 pip for the purpose of experience, so each time you zap something with a wand, you're getting 3XP. Any spell. Attack, buff, debuff, heal, 3XP per pip, so you aren't losing out if you're spending your pips healing your friends or helping them attack.

I went to Cyclops Lane and fought some rank 2 Cyclops Legionnaires for this experiment.

I killed one with nothing but 0-pip wand blasts. It took four rounds, I got 12 XP.
I killed one by casting Balanceblade (0) and Locust Swarm (3) in two rounds, I got 12 XP.
I killed one by casting Weakness (0) and Sandstorm (4) in two rounds, I got 15 XP.
I killed one by casting Scarab (1) and Dark Sprite (1) in four rounds, I got 12 XP.

I used spells way over the Cyclopses rank, and no penalty. I used spells under the Cyclopses rank, and no bonus. So just go out there and blast away. Don't worry about what spells you use, just get the biggest hammer in your toolbox and keep hitting until you're the only thing left standing in the battlefield.

There is an unhappy underlying fact here, however. Monster XP is teensy tiny. Once it takes a thousand or more XP to go up a level, fighting alone isn't going to get you there unless you wander around fighting stuff for hours. XP gain from quests is vastly greater than XP from fighting.

But every point counts, so if you have lots of pips and have to choose between finishing off an opponent with your wand or blowing a rank 4 spell, go nuts. Pips left on the ground when the fight ends don't get you anything, so try to end a fight with as few leftover pips as possible for the most experience gain.


[This information is not new; I've found some really old posts positing that you get experience on a per-pip scale. New players (like me) wouldn't easily see those posts, though, so I'm throwing this along with my quick tests up for newbies who may be curious.]

See and I've been told both ways...that using the hardest hitting spell you got is good, so go nuts you get more xp that way, but then others have told me, no you get more xp for using spells that are the the monster's rank or lower gives you more xp. I am glad you can give evidence through your experimentation on the subject. I think I will go do some experiments of my own.

Well tested! I've seen both sides of the argument and had come to the same conclusion as you but never took the time to test it. Glad to see that there's some proof. Now, what about the theory that you gain experience from your minion's spells?

Good question! I took everything out of my deck but my trusty Mander Minion and headed back to Cyclops Lane.

In the fight, I cast three wand attacks (0), Weakness (0), and Mander Minion (3). The Mander cast Balanceblade (0) on me and was a very good little lizard who blew up the Cyclops with Locust Swarm (3).

Total XP? 21. I didn't receive anything from the spells cast by the Mander. In a prolonged fight with the Mander I usually am getting extra pips from him and can use bigger spells more often and get extra XP that way, but he isn't directly gaining XP for me, sad to say.

Additionally, in another fight I cast Firezilla, fizzled :grrrrrr: and recast it the next round. Interestingly, I got full XP for the fizzled cast as well as the cast that worked. So the next time one of your spells picks the worst time ever to fizzle on you, you can console yourself with the thought that at least you got the experience for it.

Ah, well, too bad about the minion experience.

I knew about the experience coming from fizzled spells and should have mentioned it before for further testing. Glad that you had the chance to check that one out anyway. The fact that you get XP from fizzles make me wonder if it's gained from MANA use instead of pips. At the start of each round your mana will be taken equal to the amount of pips that you are attempting to cast, regardless of if you're going to fizzle or not. The fact that you gain experience from fizzles leads me to believe that experienced is gained through the amount of mana you use per battle, not how many pips.

Experience works on how many turns you are in battle for you gain 3 xp per turn.

Experience works on how many turns you are in battle for you gain 3 xp per turn.

I see where you're going with this, but it doesn't explain how you can get 24 experience in less than 8 rounds. I could concede that you get a minimum amount of experience based on how many rounds you're in battle, equal to 3XP per round.

Experience works on how many turns you are in battle for you gain 3 xp per turn.
That doesn't fit with my testing, because as I mentioned in the original post, I won a fight in two turns with Weakness and Sandstorm and got 15 XP.

The fact that you get XP from fizzles make me wonder if it's gained from MANA use instead of pips.
That's an interesting thought! You may be right there; I haven't honestly been paying any attention to my mana sphere ever since I got my mana pool over 60ish, so that's something to look into. Is mana burned for 0-pip wand spells? If it is, that would probably be a more accurate description of the underlying mechanics at work for experience gain.

No, mana is not used with 0-pip skills. In this case, I'm guessing they're treated as a minimum 1-pip cast, making it a minimum of 3XP per spell cast. Perhaps it's worth testing to see if you get any XP for passing. That may help explain why the other person thought that you get 3XP per round...

You don't get experience for passing. Experience is gained by you casting spells, which is why you get experience for casting a minion, but you don't get experience from the spells the minion casts.

RE: No experience from passing: That was my assumption, too, but I figured that it may as well be tested out while we're at it. If we're going to make a comprehensive study of how gaining experience works, we might as well test out all of the theories that have been floating around.

I've gained three levels (14-17) just from solo farming Lord Nightshade (lol, yep, I'm a free player that played in open beta so I have nothing to do except farm Nightshade) and I find that gaining experience isn't that hard as long as you use a lot of non-attacking spells. In a typical Nightshade run I'll pull all 3 of my Legend Shields, my 3 Thermal Shields, my Son of Storms Sigil, my 3 Spirit Armors, and all my heals.

It does eventually start adding up.

Well, I went back to Cyclops Lane and apparently the cyclopses have still not learned to clear off the streets when they see me coming. I picked a fight with one, zapped it with my wand, passed a turn, then finished it with Locust Swarm. End result: 12 XP. No experience for the passed turn.

But yeah, as Poi40504 said, if you keep fighting long enough, it does add up in the end. Once you have good odds of getting power pips, throwing out rank two and three spells every turn becomes more viable, and stretched over a fight that takes five or six turns you could walk away with fortyish experience. Not a huge amount compared to finishing a quest, but not bad either.

I learned experience a different way. 3xp per round and that's that. Tonight, I'll put these theries to the test, and I might just change my mind. :)

I learned experience a different way. 3xp per round and that's that. Tonight, I'll put these theries to the test, and I might just change my mind. :)

You dont get xp by rounds

I was fighting kraken and disconnected for five rounds when I got back my friend killed it and I dont get any xp ...

I learned experience a different way. 3xp per round and that's that. Tonight, I'll put these theries to the test, and I might just change my mind. :)

The single greatest piece of proof that we don't get experience per round is that you get 0XP from passing. I'm glad that you're going to try the XP methods listed here and I encourage you to report your findings as verification of Valatar's testing.

And now for a monkey wrench. I was testing this out myself in DS today and got the following results:

4 rounds against a rank 7 Elite: Cast Blade (0=1), Hex (0=1), Blade Storm (1), and Judgement (7) = 12XP?
Using the theories we've come up with, this should have yielded 30XP, but it works out for 3XP per round.

7 Rounds against a rank 7 elite: Cast Judgement (4), Blade (0=1), Hex (0=1), Sandstorm (4), Wand (0=1), Sandstorm (4) and Pass (0=0) = 24XP.
This should have yielded 39XP using 3/pip min 3/cast method, or 21XP by the 3/round method.

Puzzled, I shot over to Cyclops Lane to test the theory further and got these results:

1 Round against Rank 2 Cyclops: Sandstorm (4) = 12XP.
This one worked out correctly.

3 Rounds against Rank 1 Elite Troll: Blade (0=1), Pass (0=0), Power Nova (7) = 24XP.
This one also worked out correctly.

1 Round against Rank 2 Cyclops: Judgement (4) = 3XP?
This one broke the system.

This leads me to believe that X-Pip Skills are counted as Single Pip skills for experience purposes. This also blows up the XP = 3/Mana min 3/cast theory. The second DS test is still ranking as anomalous, though. Using this new theory, that battle should have ended up with 36XP (3 each from Judge, Hex, Blade and wand, 12 each from the two Sandstorms for a total of 36XP) but was awarded as 24. The only way that I can work this out while staying in the parameters of the existing rules is that I was not awarded XP for my second Sandstorm but that doesn't seem to make sense.

That is weird. I recall people guessing that X-cost spells counted as 1, and your tests bear that out. I can't test it myself as I don't have any X spells yet, but the numbers you got fit that theory. But there's just no explanation at all for your second test. The two Sandstorms alone should've counted for 24 XP. Were any of those Sandstorms from treasure cards? I haven't thought to try any of them yet, maybe they don't give XP.

Good call on the treasure card possibility, but no. All of the attacks that I tested were natural spells with the exception of the wand shots I took (of course). It is possible, however, that one of them had a weakness on it. I can't see how that might effect the XP, but it's a bit of data worth adding, I think.

More testing:

10 Rounds: Wand (0=1), Blade (0=1), Blade Storm (1), Judgement (x=8), Hex (0=1), PPPP (4 passes, all 0).
X-pip counts as 1: Total 5 x 3 = 15xp. Got 15xp.

7 Rounds: Blade (0=1), Sandstorm (4), Hex (0=1), Blade Storm (1), Blade (0=1), Sand Storm (4), Sand Storm (4).
Expected 16 x 3 = 48XP. Got 48XP.

8 Rounds: Blade (0=1), Blade Storm (1), Hex (0=1), Power Nova (7), Hex (0=1), Judgement (Fizzle), Hydra (6), Blade (0=1).
Expecteed 19 x 3 = 57XP. Got 57XP.


The only thing that I can figure regarding that anomalous round from before is that I misrecorded what I'd cast. Everything seems to be running properly now.

So you are saying if I keep passing so my friends can kill they are younger then me I am hurting myself since I seem to be the one that passes the most with certain wizards I play with. Does not matter but explains why they move up faster then me lol

Exactly. Passing nets you 0XP for that round.

Yeah, that's something to bear in mind if you're helping out a low-level wizard. If you go and nuke the monster before they have a chance to cast any spells, they won't get any experience. So moral of the story is that if you want to help a newbie, give them shields and heals and buffs, but let them do the attacking. You aren't doing them favors if you stomp the monsters yourself.

The first thing I saw when I was reading various combat tips was that you shouldn't use high-rank spells on low-rank monsters or else you'll get less experience for the fight. Another, similar theme didn't claim that there was a penalty for high-rank spells, but a bonus for using lower-ranked spells on higher-ranked monsters.

These are all hideous lies.

You get 3XP per pip per spell you cast. That's it. 0-pip spells count as 1 pip for the purpose of experience, so each time you zap something with a wand, you're getting 3XP. Any spell. Attack, buff, debuff, heal, 3XP per pip, so you aren't losing out if you're spending your pips healing your friends or helping them attack.

I went to Cyclops Lane and fought some rank 2 Cyclops Legionnaires for this experiment.

I killed one with nothing but 0-pip wand blasts. It took four rounds, I got 12 XP.
I killed one by casting Balanceblade (0) and Locust Swarm (3) in two rounds, I got 12 XP.
I killed one by casting Weakness (0) and Sandstorm (4) in two rounds, I got 15 XP.
I killed one by casting Scarab (1) and Dark Sprite (1) in four rounds, I got 12 XP.

I used spells way over the Cyclopses rank, and no penalty. I used spells under the Cyclopses rank, and no bonus. So just go out there and blast away. Don't worry about what spells you use, just get the biggest hammer in your toolbox and keep hitting until you're the only thing left standing in the battlefield.

There is an unhappy underlying fact here, however. Monster XP is teensy tiny. Once it takes a thousand or more XP to go up a level, fighting alone isn't going to get you there unless you wander around fighting stuff for hours. XP gain from quests is vastly greater than XP from fighting.

But every point counts, so if you have lots of pips and have to choose between finishing off an opponent with your wand or blowing a rank 4 spell, go nuts. Pips left on the ground when the fight ends don't get you anything, so try to end a fight with as few leftover pips as possible for the most experience gain.


[This information is not new; I've found some really old posts positing that you get experience on a per-pip scale. New players (like me) wouldn't easily see those posts, though, so I'm throwing this along with my quick tests up for newbies who may be curious.]

I had not heard about the penalties. I always have followed the 3 XP per pip used +3 extra xp rule. ty for helping all th others who were mislead.

Yeah, that's something to bear in mind if you're helping out a low-level wizard. If you go and nuke the monster before they have a chance to cast any spells, they won't get any experience. So moral of the story is that if you want to help a newbie, give them shields and heals and buffs, but let them do the attacking. You aren't doing them favors if you stomp the monsters yourself.

That is, of course, unless you're deliberately power-questing and the lowbie understands they won't be getting XP from the grind. But make sure that this is agreed upon or they're in for a nasty surprise.

Does exp gained count on the enemy you're fighting?

Because it's very weird that you get the same amount of exp even though you are using different spells.

Contrary to popular belief, enemy level doesn't seem to matter. What does matter is the number of pips that you cast (or attempt to cast, in the case of a fizzle) during a battle. Even if you fizzle, you still get EXP credit for the cast, equal to 3XP per pip.

It is entirely possible to get the same experience using different spells. Two 2-pip skills cast will net the same EXP as a single 4-pip skill. 0-pip skills, like wands, blades, traps and charms, all count as a single pip for experience, too. This means that a bladed & trapped 4-pip skill will get you the same EXP as a single 6-pip skill, etc.

I went to Cyclops Lane and fought some rank 2 Cyclops Legionnaires for this experiment.

I killed one with nothing but 0-pip wand blasts. It took four rounds, I got 12 XP.
I killed one by casting Balanceblade (0) and Locust Swarm (3) in two rounds, I got 12 XP.
I killed one by casting Weakness (0) and Sandstorm (4) in two rounds, I got 15 XP.
I killed one by casting Scarab (1) and Dark Sprite (1) in four rounds, I got 12 XP.


Interesting stuff if only to understand how the game works! One thing though. Your last example does not follow your own rule as you say you used two pips and got 12xp when you should have gotten 6xp.

Edit: AH I see you cast Scarab and Dark Sprite twice.

OK, let me be sure I have this right. (I'm slow, and there were a lot of posts in the thread.)


You get 3XP per pip you use during a fight.
Zero-pip spells (e.g., blades, traps, etc.) count as 1 pip.
X-pip spells (e.g., Judgement) are the exception. They only count as 1 pip no matter how many you actually use.
Fizzles, even though they don't use pips, still count as if you had cast.
Healing adds to the total like anything else, even if the target doesn't need it.

That right?

(So I could conceivably use Reshuffle to get into an endless fight -- one where I simply use blades, traps, and heals -- and get a ton of XP for it. Hmm.)

wow dude i didnt know that. this is cool

OK, let me be sure I have this right. (I'm slow, and there were a lot of posts in the thread.)


You get 3XP per pip you use during a fight.
Zero-pip spells (e.g., blades, traps, etc.) count as 1 pip.
X-pip spells (e.g., Judgement) are the exception. They only count as 1 pip no matter how many you actually use.
Fizzles, even though they don't use pips, still count as if you had cast.
Healing adds to the total like anything else, even if the target doesn't need it.

That right?

(So I could conceivably use Reshuffle to get into an endless fight -- one where I simply use blades, traps, and heals -- and get a ton of XP for it. Hmm.)

Bingo! The only way to not get any experience in a battle is to do nothing but pass. Reshuffling-heal-heal-heal-ad infinitum-kill will net you huge experience from a single battle. This doesn't account for gold or loot, though...

Yeah, if you want to farm for the fastest battle experience, get a wand that gives a power point, stack a deck with 3-pip and 4-pip attack spells, hop on over into a low level area in Wizard City, and win every fight in one turn. You'll get either 9 or 12 XP (depending on whether your first pip was gold or white) in about twenty seconds, in addition to a little gold and maybe an item.

This is a pretty tedious thing to do, though, so I really wouldn't recommend it unless you've somehow run out of quests and aren't 50 yet. One quest turn-in for 1500 XP is worth 125! of those fights.

So that's why I got 75 XP after doing that! THANKS FOR THE INFO

Thank you I'll keep that in mind!

sorry but i was following this and then i got confused

Don't worry about getting confused. All this info is interesting to digest, but has little to do with leveling up your wizard. If you want to level up, go complete the quest. The points you get from a battle is but a drop in the ocean when compared to the points you need to make level 50. (soon to be level 60). The only concern you may want to consider about individual battles is what the boss you are fighting may drop for you.

I tried this, too. I killed Rattlebones and his Dark Sprite with 2 wands and a rank 2 spell. 12 XP.