so i was in a PVP match tonight with my lv47 death wizard; my opponent was a storm master with maybe 200 less health than me. we were having a great fight for a while, and no one was close to losing. then out of nowhere he accused me of "cheating" because "i buy cards from the library" and fled the match! the only treasure cards i used were 2 tower shields (-55%). it's not like i filled up my deck with them. has anyone ever heard of that being cheating before? if it is, it's news to me. and what is stopping him from buying the same cards?? jeez.

so i was in a PVP match tonight with my lv47 death wizard; my opponent was a storm master with maybe 200 less health than me. we were having a great fight for a while, and no one was close to losing. then out of nowhere he accused me of "cheating" because "i buy cards from the library" and fled the match! the only treasure cards i used were 2 tower shields (-55%). it's not like i filled up my deck with them. has anyone ever heard of that being cheating before? if it is, it's news to me. and what is stopping him from buying the same cards?? jeez.

Don't worry about it. He fled so you still won :) :) And NO it is NOT cheating in any way shape or form. Keep buying those tower shields!!! Only the people who don't duel don't use those :) So yes they can and should buy them as well. :)
:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

They got scared!!!!!:51::grrrrrr:

I've been told the same thing, "Using Treasure Cards is Cheating." It is usually said by the person who is losing or doesn't want to use the ones they have. I've also been asked before the match starts if I want to limit it to 3 pip cards and no "x" cards. As long as it is something that both players agree to, then all the more fun. :sarcastic:

One time i was dueling my friend and he was balance so i used like 4 tower shields only and he is like stop using tower shields. i kept on using them because i knew he was saving up for judgement. so he fled.

well technacally its not cheating, but you really should challenge yourself and use your school(s) cards, and see if you can win, not to go buy all tower shields, i hate people that just use tower shield over and over they are hiding behind barriers -. -! but whatever do you what you want dont worry about other people :D:boulay:

well technacally its not cheating, but you really should challenge yourself and use your school(s) cards, and see if you can win, not to go buy all tower shields, i hate people that just use tower shield over and over they are hiding behind barriers -. -! but whatever do you what you want dont worry about other people :D:boulay:

I duel to win so if KI lets us buy and use tower shields I will. It is there for us to use, so why not use it? I dont think we should limit ourselves in any way and I don't find it to be hiding at all, I think tower shields are a great strategy.

Would you mind it they used 10 tower shields if you were winning? hehehe

I hate it when people get mad when I use any shields. Shields are there to protect me so I get less damage and can attack instead of wasting pips on healing. Why would anyone not use as many shields as needed?

:boulay:

It isn't cheating.So what if I use a super strong treasure card and win the battle. I'll be a cheater.
NO WAY I AM NOT A CHEATER!

So by his logic, If I were to open a wooden chest and I got a treasure card from it, I would be a cheater.
Oh no! I better delete all my wizards!

That doesn't make sense. Both the Treasure Card being cheat-worthy and me deleting all my wizards. To shorten things up, Treasure cards aren't cheating cards.

Im sorry but just like in the real world, if you are in a fight, you use everything you have to win...and treasure cards are not cheating, period.

To state so, is to say that fighting should be honorable... ..thats baloni.

Fights in real world should not be fight except in selfdefense, andin the real world should be fought to win and not any sort of 'honor fight'.


same with games... I ignore requests like that and continue play.
If they flee then Its fine, I still win the match.


Funny, in at least 2 matchs, the person who fled would likley have won anyway, even if i had used all my treasture cards and nothing but the best possible cards...

Treasure cards are NOT cheating. There just finding a way to say you cheated.

True enough.

If it was worth the effort, I would try to report them.. but I relize its a waste of time/effort to do much else.

Plus if the person was a 'real friend' and he made issue of this it would likley cause a end to the real friendship.

Since I pay for the use of Wizard101 I will use all legit options to play the game.

Ugh whenever I use treasures in a PvP match I always get reported for "cheating"...
And I don't even know if KingIsle bothers to read what happended...
They just read the report message, which is usally a huge lie.
My friends and I always get muted because of this, and it's just not right...

this is easy, you should buy a earthquake treasure card (if you have it that should be better) and when they use ice tower use the earthquake and is not cheating using treasure cards but is annoying to go to the shopping distric cause people only say !can someone give me treausure cards i'm poor! comon people nobody is poor stop humble its pathetic:24:

Im sorry but just like in the real world, if you are in a fight, you use everything you have to win...and treasure cards are not cheating, period.

To state so, is to say that fighting should be honorable... ..thats baloni.

Fights in real world should not be fight except in selfdefense, andin the real world should be fought to win and not any sort of 'honor fight'.
...

Tulsaboyw, while I understand your statements about fighting in the real world, personally, I don't think that analogy carries over to the game.

I don't view the arena as a "fight" but as a "duel". After all, everything in game labels it as dueling. There have been rules set by various societies for dueling for centuries, and they all revolve around making it an honorable match. Guess it just depends on how you view it. :P

Anyway, more to the point of the thread...

The use of treasure cards is not cheating. Buy all the tower shields you feel you need from the library, and use them until your heart is content. :)

wow! I mean i have heard of people saying " you cheated" for healing but I have never heard that they say this now! Dont worry bout it thats not cheating lol

I wouldn't have a problem with buying tower shields or anything out of the library or what you can find in chests. I do think that the use of school-specific cards like fire dragon, storm lord, rebirth etc is "cheating." It doesn't make a difference in PvE, although you might find using them a crutch and never develop strategies of your own. In PvP, using those cards, however, do affect other people. Of course, it's not "cheating" since the game allows it. It's more of an "Exploit."

It seems to defeat the purpose of choosing a school or a secondary or tertiary school. Also, it deflates the notion of treasure cards, since they are not rare finds, but just something your friend passed to you in bulk.

I do not have certain spells because of the way I distributed my training points and how the game chose my school. I kinda have to just live with it, unless I want to buy the training points back. But that's what would make PvP interesting and challenging, because everyone would be limited to spells that they learned + a limited set of treasure cards. I also think a level limit on spells would make it fairer to both sides.

I admit that I would love to be able to unleash a scarecrow or fire dragon and not have people say "Cheese Ball" all the time. So, I created another character.

well if they report you for cheating because you used a treasure then thats a false report on there part.

disagreee


but its a matter of game play i guess


Dueling in the old sense (back in 1700'sl) was a fools errand.
Dueling is just a 'polite' fight.

Using anything you have in said duel is aok to me.

If its cheating, then so is a 'level 5' having to fight a level 20+ or whatever.


To me real world fighting and game fighting is one and the same.
Exception, when Im helping another player get thru a quest or similar.
Or when they are helping me on same.
So far the only quest I truely needed help on was sunken city and Im in the level 20' about 23 or 24 i thnk

... i used like 4 tower shields ... i kept on using them because i knew he was saving up ...

this is easy, you should buy a earthquake treasure card ...

Any Damage-Over-Time card will make those 55% towers worthless. Buy a fire elf. Enjoy the maniacal laugh you get for casting it and watch those expensive towers explode.

Natural or treasure tower shields are a pain unless you are prepared ... so get prepared.

- DerHund

I was very careful how I spent my training points to maximize what I could use without treasure cards.

So, although I am balance, I have life up to Satyr, Ice up to Tower shield, and fire up to elf. Then I have available to me everything i need to both use towers, and to rid other oponents of them.

Plus, there are so many different ways to counter them, as have been mentioned. Earthquake. Steal.

Treasure card slots are part of your deck, for people to use as they see fit. I load mine up with reshuffles. That way I can keep a lean deck with just what I want, and reshuffle when I get low.

It's not cheating if it's available to you. Perhaps there are 'purists' out there who don't believe in using them, but that doesn't give them the right to tell everyone else that they don't have the right to either. It's a choice.

Understandably, people will get annoyed. Just like they get annoyed at people who through in a bunch of Wild Bolts, and somehow that is unfair.

The bottom line is this:

It's a game people. For your leisure and recreation. Treat it as such and enjoy!

everything is cheating when you're the one winning. Clearly you have to cheat to beat such a powerful opponent as they are. :6:

Shielding is cheating, summoning minions is cheating, going first is cheating, healing is cheating, putting traps and blades is cheating... Everything is cheating in pvp according to everyone. :blink:

sigh people are just making up excuses because they lost. just ignore them because treasure cards are definatly not cheating :)

Its not really cheating to use treasure cards but it is cheap. Its kinda like buying your win.

Its not really cheating to use treasure cards but it is cheap. Its kinda like buying your win.


Cheating is using an advantage that isn't available to everyone, like hacking your character, or finding a way to wear high-end gear when you're level 10.

EVERYONE gets gold, EVERYONE can buy treasure cards. Even if you don't choose to buy treasure cards with gold, eventually everyone WILL get a treasure card as battle drops, this means everyone has access to them.

Just because someone chooses NOT to use treasure cards doesn't make the fact that I DO use them cheating. If anything, the people that aren't using them are simply handicapping themselves.

But what if you make your own treasure cards. Is that still considered cheating?

Its not really cheating to use treasure cards but it is cheap. Its kinda like buying your win.

It's not cheap. It's not cheating. Everyone can buy these cards. 50g a piece is very inexpensive. The great thing about the shields is you can load your sideboard up with them and pop them when you need them the most, keeping your hand streamlined for your blades and traps.

Cheating is using an advantage that isn't available to everyone, like hacking your character, or finding a way to wear high-end gear when you're level 10.

EVERYONE gets gold, EVERYONE can buy treasure cards. Even if you don't choose to buy treasure cards with gold, eventually everyone WILL get a treasure card as battle drops, this means everyone has access to them.

Just because someone chooses NOT to use treasure cards doesn't make the fact that I DO use them cheating. If anything, the people that aren't using them are simply handicapping themselves.

First time I've ever heard it called cheating to outfit your low level wiz with the best gear that he can find. Your logic is a little flawed though, if everyone will eventually get battle treasure cards as drops, and that means everyone has access to them, then it also stands to reason that everyone can achieve level 50 so the higher end gear is accessible as well.

Not all treasure cards are dropped. A number of cards can only be player created. Anyway....I don't view treasure cards, minions, gear, or anything to be cheating, except for hacking or other things that are done OUTSIDE of the game to unbalance.

By the way....had someone use a Wild Bolt on my low level fighter today, but the way she used it was strategic, and therefore didn't seem to me like cheating. She strategically used Storm Hound to remove 2 storm shields I had up, and then with about 15 health left zapped me with a wild bolt for the win ;) Was shocking!

I was very careful how I spent my training points to maximize what I could use without treasure cards.

So, although I am balance, I have life up to Satyr, Ice up to Tower shield, and fire up to elf. Then I have available to me everything i need to both use towers, and to rid other oponents of them.

Plus, there are so many different ways to counter them, as have been mentioned. Earthquake. Steal.

Treasure card slots are part of your deck, for people to use as they see fit. I load mine up with reshuffles. That way I can keep a lean deck with just what I want, and reshuffle when I get low.

It's not cheating if it's available to you. Perhaps there are 'purists' out there who don't believe in using them, but that doesn't give them the right to tell everyone else that they don't have the right to either. It's a choice.

Understandably, people will get annoyed. Just like they get annoyed at people who through in a bunch of Wild Bolts, and somehow that is unfair.

The bottom line is this:

It's a game people. For your leisure and recreation. Treat it as such and enjoy!


Off topic, but I saw this post and figure you need to know. As balance you can train reshuffle for free. You never need to use a treasure reshuffle after level 22 when you can train it from Mildred Farseer in Colossus Blvd.

You also don't need more than two reshuffles in your deck since when you use the first it is then in your discard pile so when you use the second the first gets reshuffled back into your deck.

My side deck usually has some treasure towers, a couple of heals, a couple of earthquakes, treasure weakness and a few tough hydras. You never need to use treasure reshuffles as balance.

Its not really cheating to use treasure cards but it is cheap. Its kinda like buying your win.

It is in absolutely no way cheating, and absolutely no way cheap to use treasure cards. It's not buying your win since everyone has access to them. Using treasure cards is beneficial, but in no way guarantees you win; not even close.

I am really sick of the constant discussion of whether they are fair. Yes they are fair. No one has any distinct advantage using them unless their opponent chooses not to use them, and that is their decision. If I decide (as I have) not to use wild bolts in duels then it is my choice, but I don't condemn those who use them. The only remarks I make regarding treasure cards is if I am on a team and a non-storm wizard is spamming wild bolts. I ask them to stop.

Treasure cards help round out your deck so if you really need a particular card you can put some in the side deck and pull one when in need.

agreed.

and even if not, treasure cards by a idiots defination is less of a cheat than going to minigames.

To me using minigames is a cheat.
You get to die, gethealth/mana and come back and fight and at times the fight u just died in.

thats a cheat too.


In fact much of the game is a cheat ..if a idiot really wants to argue.
But then much in life is a cheat too.

First time I've ever heard it called cheating to outfit your low level wiz with the best gear that he can find.
I wasn't clear. I meant find a way for a low level (L10 or lower) to wear L40+ gear. Hacking, not crown gear purchases or nice gear drops.

Everyone can buy the cards they have access to, and create what they need (or trade for what their school doesn't have). Everyone can get the boss drops they have access to. If your L50 meets my L13 in the arena, of COURSE it's not an even matchup, and NOT because of the cards. With few exceptions, any two characters of similar levels will have similar access to both drops and purchased treasure cards.

Sure, you can have a L20 free player that spends all their time leveling in the first world, that doesn't have access to Crok, MB, etc., and therefore is at a disadvantage with Treasure cards, but that's THEIR problem, not mine.

Again, just because someone CHOOSES not to use Treasure cards, for whatever reason, it's not my problem, and it's certainly not cheating to use them against that person, unless previously agreed upon. I can whip people with or without Treasure cards. If they cry "cheat", I cry "big deal!"

They should band them from pvp, its getting out of hand now. I was on my fire noob every thing was going great, and i was fighting a low level storm. He blades and he hits me with a TRITON!!! DO SOME THING ABOUT THIS!lol

I saw a fight where 10 wild bolts hit one player. Even when I use sniper my wild bolts still fizzle and I have pretty high accuracy so I dont know how they are doing it but I love treasure cards and it is part of strategy.

Well sometimes when you load with them like you use tons of them I could consider that, but you only used two! But anyway you did win the match.

They should band them from pvp, its getting out of hand now. I was on my fire noob every thing was going great, and i was fighting a low level storm. He blades and he hits me with a TRITON!!! DO SOME THING ABOUT THIS!lol

1) The correct word is BAN, or they should be Banned. If you don't know the correct word, look it up.

2) Do you really think you had everything was going great?
I mean, if you were at a point where he could do that to you it looks like he wore though all your defenses, which coupled with the fact that he used Triton on you, tends to suggest that he isn't a "noob" as you may have suggested.
Maybe he's not the one who was a "noob" in that battle?

The same could be said with any card given by purchase of gift cards, as they are not available to everyone.
(Kinda like your firezilla...)

By the way what level were you when beaten by a level 12?

Sure we could ban treasure cards, then we would also have to ban cards from gear and pets as those would also be unfair. I suppose even the diffrent kinds of gear could be considered unfair so that would have to go as well. secondary school spells would have to go as thats no "fair" to cast a spell that is not part of your school...

Keep at it long enough and we will be back to Rock, Paper, Sissors or a coin toss because thats the only thing thats "fair".

As i have said befor, most if not all the problems with pvp would be solved if Deiago was removed from the game. No rank, no gear, no gold or glory from the arena thus exploits would be reduced to a minimum.

The problem is not the cards or the treasure cards the problem is the humans involved. humans have been known to cheat and exploite all that they can for personal gain in one form or another. When people feal they have a system or a sure thing and loose anyways they claim it is a fault with the system or the other person cheated. Isn't a faulse claim that the other party cheated in a effort for personal gain also a foram of cheating?.... If i choose rock and you choose paper dose that make you a cheater? So when and where do we draw the line?

:banane37: They should at least ban Wild Bolt, you have to agree that Bolt is not fair in duels.

Sure we could ban treasure cards, then we would also have to ban cards from gear and pets as those would also be unfair. I suppose even the diffrent kinds of gear could be considered unfair so that would have to go as well. secondary school spells would have to go as thats no "fair" to cast a spell that is not part of your school...

Keep at it long enough and we will be back to Rock, Paper, Sissors or a coin toss because thats the only thing thats "fair".

As i have said befor, most if not all the problems with pvp would be solved if Deiago was removed from the game. No rank, no gear, no gold or glory from the arena thus exploits would be reduced to a minimum.

The problem is not the cards or the treasure cards the problem is the humans involved. humans have been known to cheat and exploite all that they can for personal gain in one form or another. When people feal they have a system or a sure thing and loose anyways they claim it is a fault with the system or the other person cheated. Isn't a faulse claim that the other party cheated in a effort for personal gain also a foram of cheating?.... If i choose rock and you choose paper dose that make you a cheater? So when and where do we draw the line?

It's an issue with the microtransactional business model. People don't tend to like it when you can "buy" your way with better gear or defender pigs. When it's PvE, this is not so much of an issue, unless you are comparing by achievements or levels. In multiplayer PvP, it becomes an issue of balance.

However, if people are going to plunk down $20 for something, then they want something of more value, not just a pet with no card or anything, or a way to dye your hair pink - well something that does not unbalance a game - which is how some games deal with microtransactions. The issue then is how much of an advantage do you are give the people who are paying? And if you're paying, then you want to do better, right?

You don't want to alienate your free users, because you need a lot of free users for the sake of community, and also because typically the conversion rate between free and paying users is very small, if you look at shareware games.

So, in some games, paying customers are given such a significant advantage that it alienates non-paying customers... who basically stop playing. And if your game needs a lot of players in order to be fun (a 16-player shooter game where there is only the two of you in there will become hide and seek rather than a full pitch battle, for instance) then that's not a good outcome.

At the same time, if you are going with the microtransactional business model, then you need to design the game so that people want to buy the items. They will want to buy the items if they get an edge out of it, or it's just really really cute or promotional and will never be seen again. And yet, to be fair, if these items give an edge, then there should be some rare way for non-paying customers to also obtain these items. In most cases, people think of it as trading time for money, e.g. if I have to farm Oakheart 20 million times, I get the crown item I want for free, but I used up a lot of my time. In this way, it's not "buying" your win, because conceivably, "non-Zeke-paying" customers also have access to the items.

Now with arena gear, it seems like the better you get, the harder it will be to defeat you, because you now have access to arena gear. Ideally, people in arena gear only face other people in arena gear, but that is not the case.

:banane37: They should at least ban Wild Bolt, you have to agree that Bolt is not fair in duels.

With Wild Bolt, I've given up on that and just joined the fray. It's not a bad strategy for some people, actually. For me, I think of it as a last resort, because if there's no way I can pull off a decent Judgement then I might as well try to Wild Bolt you.

It's an issue with the microtransactional business model. People don't tend to like it when you can "buy" your way with better gear or defender pigs. When it's PvE, this is not so much of an issue, unless you are comparing by achievements or levels. In multiplayer PvP, it becomes an issue of balance.
...

I'm not going to qote your hole post as it's quite long and impressive. (something that i may have posted myself pending my moode anyways.)

First lets start off with saying that i agree with you. personaly i happen to belive that the best farmed gear, the best arena gear and the best zeke gear should be on par with eachother giving players a choice rather than a decisive diffrence in power level.

The orginal crown gear was way over powered, the currnet is a bit under powered. but this thread realy isn't about the gear so i am going off subject or back on as it where.

the op has issue with treasure cards and there use namely in pvp or more to the point others say they cheated by using them. others have made the blanket stament that all tc's are cheating and that is confusing to me. these are cards that are avaliable to everyone not just a select few.

sure one could argue that TC's can be gained eaiser via crowns rather than farming or trading for them or even that puchasing them for gold in the library is unfair as one play may play more than another thus have more ingame gold to spend on them.

the real question i have is where do we draw the line? should one be considered cheating because they play 2 more hours per week than another player thus having more resources, higher level and better gear?

I understand sometimes there are break downs in the system (chain stunning and the orginal crown gear vs the current crown gear) however the blaket statment of any tc used is cheating??? dose that also include the cards granted by famred pets or from the M.Drake robes?

Now i know that pvp is the catalist for most of the upset in player power balance and the reason i see that it was triggered in the first place is the introduction of ranked matches. sure there was pvp prior to that point however you would have to go to the arena with a group of friends if you wnated to play with others and thus all the games where freindly fights for fun and entertainment only.

now there is the potential for personal gain via rank and improved items. strangers compete on a regular basis and its no longer about having fun but about winning for far too many players. this is the realy problem, not the gear, the treasure cards, level or deck configuration.

players that desire the domnation of others feal that they where rob'd or cheated from a victory that they desirve (not one that they earned but desirved) because the other player must have had an unfair advantage. they can't seam to accept that fact that it may have been luck let alone skill or lack there of that cost them the battle.

the human nature is the real culpreate more so than any other and unfortunatly there are very few ways to solve this problem other than having the players in question think things thruogh and come to terms with themselfs, thus my default responce when some claims that when both sides of a conflict have the same opertunity (in this case the purchase and use of tower shields) that one side was cheated (and yes i have heard simular arguments about the unfortunate times players have fizzled) "Where do we draw the line?".

its more of a question to get people to honestly think about there stance than for an answer but i know most of us get that. but maybe there is something that i am missing. perhaps my eyes need to be opened and i welcom that with great anticipation. there have been a few things new latley that i have learned from this site and am tickled pink whenever i do. But once again thats me rambiling again. Well now turns out i was in the mood for another long post.

We shall end it with the same question once again.

Where do we draw the line?

my only point is when players rely solely on wild bolts to win
wheres the strategy or skill when a death wizard attempts nothing but wild bolts and buffs the entire match true outta 20 tries they only succeded 3 times and yes i lost that dont bother me to lose however what is bothersome is the fact that they solely relyed on bolts to win
i mean common 20+ tries in one match thats a bit much yes?
bolt dont bother me cause its a decient card that can play well in to a strategy how ever my point is to only spam bolt to win is no strategy :)

my only point is when players rely solely on wild bolts to win
wheres the strategy or skill when a death wizard attempts nothing but wild bolts and buffs the entire match true outta 20 tries they only succeded 3 times and yes i lost that dont bother me to lose however what is bothersome is the fact that they solely relyed on bolts to win
i mean common 20+ tries in one match thats a bit much yes?
bolt dont bother me cause its a decient card that can play well in to a strategy how ever my point is to only spam bolt to win is no strategy :)

Well, when I got wild bolted straight off the bat, I drew my TC Wild Bolt (TC Precision helps with this) and wild bolted them back. Although I died soon after, I felt very satisfied.

It also teaches you that a storm shield is important to have.

Why is it logic just goes out the window with a lot of these issues? Today I think I had my funniest situational response to using a TC....

Playing with a level 48 Myth wiz, and I am on my level 46 Storm wiz....we draw two grandmaster Storm wizards as opponents. We have the first move and begin our builds. I have two Storm Lords in my treasure deck usually since as close as I am to 48 I'm not typically getting too many opponents that would overwhelm. I eventually build up to using the Storm Lord and get it off before they get theirs off. Oh man...the whining was amazing. I'm cheating because I'm using a treasure....I couldn't win without it...you loser. Now, this is coming from two wizards that both have the spell in their book, both wizards looking to cast it as soon as they get a chance, and in their minds I have somehow upset the competetive balance of the duel by using one Storm Lord?

My partner killed off one of them before they could use their own Storm Lord so essentially the pip battle was won. Now the thing that galled me the most was one of the wizards had fought me in the prior fight with another partner and had the first move...she won that fight and both of us were gracious in losing, yet when she lost the second fight you didn't hear a peep. We ended up being ported to the same arena and when I asked her about it she declared "I don't gg someone that uses a ton of treasures!"

One TC spawned this complete suspension of common sense.

:confused1:

I'm not going to qote your hole post as it's quite long and impressive. (something that i may have posted myself pending my moode anyways.)

First lets start off with saying that i agree with you. personaly i happen to belive that the best farmed gear, the best arena gear and the best zeke gear should be on par with eachother giving players a choice rather than a decisive diffrence in power level.

The orginal crown gear was way over powered, the currnet is a bit under powered. but this thread realy isn't about the gear so i am going off subject or back on as it where.

the op has issue with treasure cards and there use namely in pvp or more to the point others say they cheated by using them. others have made the blanket stament that all tc's are cheating and that is confusing to me. these are cards that are avaliable to everyone not just a select few.

sure one could argue that TC's can be gained eaiser via crowns rather than farming or trading for them or even that puchasing them for gold in the library is unfair as one play may play more than another thus have more ingame gold to spend on them.

the real question i have is where do we draw the line? should one be considered cheating because they play 2 more hours per week than another player thus having more resources, higher level and better gear?

I understand sometimes there are break downs in the system (chain stunning and the orginal crown gear vs the current crown gear) however the blaket statment of any tc used is cheating??? dose that also include the cards granted by famred pets or from the M.Drake robes?

Now i know that pvp is the catalist for most of the upset in player power balance and the reason i see that it was triggered in the first place is the introduction of ranked matches. sure there was pvp prior to that point however you would have to go to the arena with a group of friends if you wnated to play with others and thus all the games where freindly fights for fun and entertainment only.

now there is the potential for personal gain via rank and improved items. strangers compete on a regular basis and its no longer about having fun but about winning for far too many players. this is the realy problem, not the gear, the treasure cards, level or deck configuration.

players that desire the domnation of others feal that they where rob'd or cheated from a victory that they desirve (not one that they earned but desirved) because the other player must have had an unfair advantage. they can't seam to accept that fact that it may have been luck let alone skill or lack there of that cost them the battle.

the human nature is the real culpreate more so than any other and unfortunatly there are very few ways to solve this problem other than having the players in question think things thruogh and come to terms with themselfs, thus my default responce when some claims that when both sides of a conflict have the same opertunity (in this case the purchase and use of tower shields) that one side was cheated (and yes i have heard simular arguments about the unfortunate times players have fizzled) "Where do we draw the line?".

its more of a question to get people to honestly think about there stance than for an answer but i know most of us get that. but maybe there is something that i am missing. perhaps my eyes need to be opened and i welcom that with great anticipation. there have been a few things new latley that i have learned from this site and am tickled pink whenever i do. But once again thats me rambiling again. Well now turns out i was in the mood for another long post.

We shall end it with the same question once again.

Where do we draw the line?

I went off on the gear because you brought it up... but having done practice master/grandmaster four vs four PvP, I can say that the environment is really different. It's a lot more fun and people talk during the match. Sometimes, you have your friends with you that you would usually compete against, so that is a rare treat to be with them on the same team. (Or at least this is the case for Sorcerers, since they are usually on other teams)

Some of the issues with the PvP can be solved or mitigated - for instance, arena gear can be limited to those with the title, so if you deliberately or just happen to lose rank, then you cannot use your arena gear. That way, people in the lower ranks do not face people in arena gear.

Introducing a system of rank is typical of many PvP-type games. It especially appeals to Achievers. And the thing about Achievers is that they need something to show for it - so it could be the badge, the rank, the item, or whatever. That some people don't enjoy this environment is also typical, which is why there are non-PvP servers, or a way to designate that you don't do PvP.

Considering that there is not much to do after Lvl 50, besides looking for diamonds, blood moss, and black pearls or helping people or killing more pigs so you can get a badge, PvP is a draw for these people and certainly more challenging than PvE. So, I would say that there is a place for this feature in the game.

Regarding original OP, I would not consider the use of treasure cards cheating, as you can buy them in the library and you can find them on mobs or treasure chests. And if you need money for tower shields, you just go out and farm.

Where I think the concept of treasure cards (and secondary schools and crafting, btw) gets cheapened is through the trading and making of school-specific spells and spells that are significantly high-level that they probably wouldn't be in treasure chests. I have yet to find a Storm Lord hiding in a treasure chest!

When designing for multiplayer, you want people to pair up. So, if a Conjurer has skills useful to my team, then I need to find a good Conjurer. But if I can get Orthrus and Earthquake by the dozen as TCs, then OK, I can maybe deal without having a Conjurer. I can also deal with never distributing my training points.

So, as we have heard lately, cards created through enchantments like Sniper and Keen Eyes will not be able to traded soon. This will cut down on the use of school-specific spells by different schools. I do think the intent of the arena is to use your school spells and not just try to wild bolt 20+ times.

So, I don't have a problem with treasure cards that anyone can get from the library or the bazaar (if those cards were found in treasure chests or sold by crafters). I do think that school-specific spells need to stay within their own schools. I don't think I would mind a level limit on TC spells either... I guess the argument there is that you need to use higher-level spells in order to be competitive, but then again, you can also level up so that you learn those spells.

However, I do find that the matching system and point distribution in arena leaves something to be desired. That part does seem to have inequity.

Playing with a level 48 Myth wiz, and I am on my level 46 Storm wiz....we draw two grandmaster Storm wizards as opponents. We have the first move and begin our builds. I have two Storm Lords in my treasure deck usually since as close as I am to 48 I'm not typically getting too many opponents that would overwhelm. I eventually build up to using the Storm Lord and get it off before they get theirs off. Oh man...the whining was amazing. I'm cheating because I'm using a treasure....I couldn't win without it...you loser. Now, this is coming from two wizards that both have the spell in their book, both wizards looking to cast it as soon as they get a chance, and in their minds I have somehow upset the competetive balance of the duel by using one Storm Lord?

My partner killed off one of them before they could use their own Storm Lord so essentially the pip battle was won. Now the thing that galled me the most was one of the wizards had fought me in the prior fight with another partner and had the first move...she won that fight and both of us were gracious in losing, yet when she lost the second fight you didn't hear a peep. We ended up being ported to the same arena and when I asked her about it she declared "I don't gg someone that uses a ton of treasures!"

One TC spawned this complete suspension of common sense.

:confused1:

Sounds like sore losers.

The worst part of arena is the attitudes.

I just wanted to very intentionally post a thank you to everyone contributing to this post; what a wonderful read for those who do actually spend the time and enjoy a healthy debate.

Wonderful points and counter-points. It just goes to show that competitive does not necessarily mean you have to be combative as well :).

I think sk8gundy hit the nail on the head with keeping treasure cards that are created by players to themselves; making them no trade.

As far as the system match-up, I can only imagine the programming necessary to try and make that as fair as possible given the current queue of players, without having to make them wait ad infinitum because there just is not a player that will match their title or level.

So you are most definitely going to have some lopsided matches now and then. When that happens to me, I just play the good sport, watch their strategies, and learn from the experience. I have found several good plays that I have either mimicked, or built counter points against. Without the experience, I would not have had the opportunity to do so.

Matches that pit me against someone with a treasure trove of spells such as wild bolt, I take with a grain of salt, and go to the next match. I myself enjoy testing my skill with the cards I have in my deck (which are obviously not all from my primary school). I also have spent my training points on multiple schools, so I have a wide array of different schools at my disposal.

I've only recently started doing pvp and basic battles just to get my wizard feet wet. Now I got accused of cheating as well, i didn't use tower shields. But my level 50 wizard is death. So I had used the accurate arrow on a few of my cards and they turned to gold cards, and I used them, and there was this shouting match from the one I was playing with and another 1 or 2 people watching saying how i was cheating. I was floored. Because I was trying to be adult about it and not act like a child. So I'm running back to ask my husband who plays rather well, if I was cheating he said no. Then I asked a Famous Central person on here in chats if that was cheating she said no it wasn't. It's all fair. Maynot be fair you don't get your pips where you want them or your cards up when you need them, but it's a game. Well then the player was going to report me to the forum, like what was that going to do? And I wasn't sure, so after knowing what I knew and had asked through the right channels, I told those people I asked my friend and no where in any "rules" did it see anything about not being able to use the gold cards. And their instant reply was....Well it should be. It tells you even though I'm new at pvp as a noob and learning, that at least I don't act like a child. I won my game and didn't gloot said thank you good game, and was told....We have to stop playing noobs because they are stupid. How rude. This is all in fun. I don't win alot, and it's about 50/50, but if I get my bum whopped I still say thank you good game and then I realized I learned sometihing new or a new technique from another player to maybe play better. So go ahead use your gold cards. It doesn't stop me and even if I do use them doesn't mean I'm going to win either.

Win or lose be happy ;) Woot! I am seeing some really strong and good posts ,Thanks. Here is how i see it.

before we had ranks everyone just had fun ;) yes we all use treasures :D and will never be cheating. Your deck gives you that room for treasures to make your cards stronger , more able to hit and able to shield yourself better ;) Now you can even craft balance blades and so forth ;) I choose never to use wild bolt just because i do not like it. maybe ill go back to ranked again.

Remember this is a game Have fun!:fence:

Remember this is a game Have fun!:fence:

this is probably the most forgotten idea in Wizard101. Everybody has turned to the "they owe me" mentality because they paid for a game, and they need to get over it.

Treasure cards are there to be used. I have in fact an entire sideboard packet to deal with 'treasure packers' and frankly haven't lost a match to a wildbolter since I started to do so. The arena is competitive and every match can be a learning experience. Every style can be countered, though some are slightly more trouble than others, all depending on what school you are to begin with. Frankly, I despise poor sports in the arena. I've been called a noob for healing, I've been called a noob for using Judgment on my balance toon, I've been called a noob for playing a Necromancer well. It is all terribly sad, but also an expected part of human nature that we can all hope that others mature beyond.

I will be looking forward to changes in the TC system that address the insanely easily dupe-able high level spells. I'm sure something else will be abused in the future, but my advice to all is to take your loses with a grain of salt and adapt to the greater challenge that playing against live opponents brings to the table. As long as you choose to ignore the smacktards, all will be well.

so i was in a PVP match tonight with my lv47 death wizard; my opponent was a storm master with maybe 200 less health than me. we were having a great fight for a while, and no one was close to losing. then out of nowhere he accused me of "cheating" because "i buy cards from the library" and fled the match! the only treasure cards i used were 2 tower shields (-55%). it's not like i filled up my deck with them. has anyone ever heard of that being cheating before? if it is, it's news to me. and what is stopping him from buying the same cards?? jeez. sounds to me you was playing fair but i feel playing with a full deck of towers is cheating it takes the fun out of it i dont feel it was the cards that up set him it was when you put them on i get called a cheater ever day no matter is i am playing on a my noob or one of my grandmasters its the first thing people say when they know they cant win and its sad my name is scot deathhammer granmaster-fire-balance-storm-noob myth

wow, cheating! really? seems like losers will make any excuse to cover up their own inability to pvp. ohwell, HIS loss

:45:

ppl also sometimes say using high pip spells is cheaating f there like lvl 30. I also keep a scarecrow I made in my gold card deck b/c it can be vry helpful. When it comes to bolts I get a bit upset but then again, It has nothing 2 do with being a gold card or not (the added accuracy is a pain though) ppl nvr said I CHEAT but they call me a treuse noob hey? who's the death grand here? I rarly use treuses and chances r, in that match I DIDNT (not my fault I have old ms crowns, on that I know hydra) acctually, I just make and cards like a back up scarecrow, or wraith or poison, and sell the rest of them (once I sold almost all of them and made something like 3 k)

me and my friend were battling and his stratagey was shields, mine was minions. Eventually he had all kinds of shields and he started saving up for a big attack. Right then my mander minion gave me a couple of shields and i used tresaure tower shield. He got really angry. Only 4 shields for about 30? He had so much defence on that a judgement 7 power pip (14 pip) would have done about 40 damage! he said i was cheating. after the battle though we apologized after the battle when i DID do a fourteen pip judgement.

If no treasure card tower shield are allowed, it is going to be really difficult to stop judgement, as it will hit through your normal tower shield.

Some people consider using treasure wild bolt unfair though. I agree with that.

Some treasure cards are more unfair than others. I think treasure tower shield is perfectly fair. But an ice wizard spamming wild bolt is not that fair.

Using treasure cards is not cheating but does show a lack of skills though.Some people can't win a duel with there own school cards or secondary cards so they buy treasure cards to pick up the slack where they are weak.

Using treasure cards is not cheating but does show a lack of skills though.Some people can't win a duel with there own school cards or secondary cards so they buy treasure cards to pick up the slack where they are weak.

how about giving an example?

I make 95% Wraiths and pack those going in. If I'm a L48 Death, how is that "slack" or "weak"? All I'm doing is adding a quick 10% to it, and anyone can buy accuracy cards for 50G.

I don't go buy/trade for Heliphants or anything out of my school because those are a waste of Power Pips. I'd rather hit you with a Wraith+feint+other traps+blades than a Heliphant plus a feint and curse.

lol it really isnt just cheating shows a bit that you might not have a bit of skill but some people complain